Gender critical feminists: “Gender identity theory is misogynistic because it relies on and reenforces gender-based stereotypes.”
Also gender critical feminists: “Most feminine men are gay.”
I’m not understanding why you think that’s a big gotcha.
I suspect that the vast majority of gender critical folks will agree that performance is a huge part of sexuality. Straight women who want partners have to perform a certain way if they expect to get some action from men. Walking around like a lumberjack, for instance, isn’t going to be an aattractive quality for the majority of straight men, since straight men dig women, and lumberjackness isn’t a quality associated with women.
But gender crittcs don’t think lumberjackness is what makes a man a man. You can be the best lumberjack there is and have a vagina and that just means you’re a female lumberjack. It doesn’t mean you’re a lumberjack trapped in a woman’s body so let’s call you Sam now instead of Samantha.
Gender critics don’t want us to go down the path of equating behavior with gender. But they are OK with using behavior as an indicator of sexuality–since sexuality does involve expression and performance.
Hon can be a term catty transwomen use for other transwomen. What you were describing was a transwoman using it for everyone at work. Seems way more likely a dialectal idiosyncracity than a trans-cultural usage, like Ann said. Especially if she was the only transwoman there.
No, they don’t.
My personal experience says otherwise.
Cute, but irrelevant. Your personal experience doesn’t trump mine, in a case where monstro spoke in absolutes.
I may not know many transwomen in real life, but I do talk to them on the internet believe it or not. Apparently in some transwomen communities, “hon” is used both as a slur and as a term of endearment, kind of like how “nigga” is for black folks.
My trans coworker would whip out “hon” the way some folks might use “dude” or “bro”. Because I noticed other transwomen I’ve talked to online speaking like this, I’ve come to the logical conclusion that it is a cultural thing. Especially since there are no 20- and 30-year-old ciswomen calling each other “hon” in my workplace (and my trans coworker is not in the 60+ demographic…which is the only one that can get away with calling me “hon” without it rubbing me the wrong way)
- I’m not at all sure I qualify as a gender critical feminist.
- What I actually said was that I’d suspect a very obviously feminine man was gay. I’m not asserting that it’s categorically true.
- However, if most feminine boys grow up to be gay, then it’s not a totally unreasonable suspicion.
- I hope you understand basic logic: “most A are B” does not imply “most B are A”.
What, your personal experience of being a straight woman trying to attract men?
Getting hung up on whether “hon” is associated with transwomen is missing the forest for the trees. @monstro’s point is that communities often have their own ways of relating to each other. Those within the group have shared cultural norms. Outsiders who haven’t been schooled in all these norms often come off as try hards when they try to partake in the culture but miss the mark.
Lesbians have these cultural norms. Transwomen—particular those that spent most of their adult lives as straight men—are often unschooled on these norms and show it. Think Michael Scott trying to fit in with the guys down in the warehouse levels of awkwardness. I can totally see this being a social barrier on top of the physical issue trans presents.
“Hon” strikes me as stereotypically gay more than anything. @monstro, is your coworker attracted to men or women?
No, my personal experience of being a man attracted to women and not giving a fuck about their “performance”. Note that she didn’t specify straight men in that sentence, only later.
You’re one person. It’s a question of widening/narrowing one’s dating pool, so for most women it’s necessary to put a certain amount of effort in.
So you think a woman can exhibit every male stereotype, including clothing and grooming, and still have the same number of male hollerers as a woman who conforms to all the norms of femininity? Are you serious right now?
There will be a man somewhere on the planet who will bone her regardless of what she looks like or how she presents. But I’m talking about a woman’s chances of finding a mate she is compatible with (who isn’t, you know, raping her). Her chances will be far greater if she performs a certain way than if she performs any ole kind of way.
The fact that you think otherwise is incredible to me.
This is inarguable. It’s amazing what people are choosing to argue about in this thread.
I wouldn’t have gotten a second date with my husband if I strolled up looking like a Mario brother with bed hair and a makeup-less face. By presenting as I did, I made it easy for him to see me as an attractive woman who has the goods he was in the market for. That’s what the performance of gender presentation and grooming do on the dating scene.
Complete with moustache? 
We have now reached the point in the thread where people are implying appearance doesn’t matter in sexual attraction. It is truly a though-the-looking-class position to take.
Girl yes. I shudder to think what my life would be like without razors.
I was thinking of trying laser hair removal, but I hate pain and spending money.
I have no idea. I mean, when I started noticing it I did wonder if perhaps she had been a campy gay man before transitioning. But then I noticed it among other trans women online.
Oh, so now it’s “the same numbers”? My, how those goalposts have moved.