And how does this refute my point, @Babale?
Can you at least try to participate in this thread in an intelligent manner?
Ah. Okay. I misunderstood what you were getting at by including: math, language, beauty, wealth, etc…
So it comes down to achieving a least harm result when it comes to deciding whether transwomen can compete in women’s league sports or whether fairness is (further) compromised in doing so. Without getting into concerns of males identifying as females to compete in sports, I still see allowing transwomen to compete against women as something that achieves more net harm due to the very issue of (lack of) fairness that you raise. We can’t on one hand lament the lack of fairness in this world while on the other willingly contribute to it.
Your point appears to be that incel ideology is so easy a trap for a teenage boy to fall into that they’ll be pretending to be trans by the dozen just to crush all the progress that feminists of your generation have made. In other words, its the exact same moral panic about the younger generation and their terrible degeneracy that you’ll find in any nursing home or retirement community, just with an added twist of misandry, because apparently huge numbers of us are self-hating incels.
She’s saying there isn’t anything stopping incel ideology from causing boys to using self-ID to reap all the rewards they think girls get.
I wish I could say this idea sounded ridiculous to me, but it doesn’t given the sense of entitlement driving the trans movement. TRAs seriously have people thinking transwomen are being cheated out of something if they can’t scrum against people naturally smaller and weaker than them.
Uh, yeah. I’m out. There are some positions so ridiculous that it’s not worth continuing discussion.
Are you out of your mind? That’s like saying, “there’s nothing to stop a Nazi whose Nazi ideology tells him that the Jews control the world from pretending to be Jewish in order to gain that control”. For one, there’s the fact that the whole ideology is about hating women, and trans people are most definitely hated by them as well. Yeah, if you take their hate-speech literally and examine it logically, you might find a loophole – “you can BECOME a woman and therefore gain all of her powers!” – but that ignored the fact that the ideology isn’t logically self consistent in the first place, so you can’t follow it to its logical conclusion. It’s an emotional argument, and “become a woman” is NOT what the incels are going to arrive at, any more than the Nazis will take over the world by converting to Judaism. To not understand this shows you really have no idea what makes those people tick.
You are right – the only possible response is “y, WTF?”. Perhaps discretion is the best part of valor in this case. This conversation isn’t gonna go anywhere productive.
I mean, if your argument is that a large number of teenage boys are stupid, self-hating incels who would really like to identify as girls, I’m out.
Why are you “out”? And what constitutes “large number” to you? To me, any number is large. Any number puts TWAW in question. And since gender ideology is spreading like wildfire among young people, I don’t think you should be “out” on this possibility. I think it would be very irresponsible to ignore this possibility. We should be planning for this possibility, as well as others.
My point–which you seem to be dodging–is that there’s no reason to think that the trans population will always be small. If it bothers you that boys could crowd out girls from sports, then you should understand why others are concerned about transgirls crowding out girls from sports.
That’s the thing that strikes you as ridiculous out of the things we’ve been discussing?
That’s hilarious.
Taking womens sports as an example, boys don’t have to fake being trans to completely take over women sports. It would happen naturally. In any group of 1000 boy athletes, there are going to be a handful of boys who will sincerely identify as girls. But this handful of boys will typically be more athletic than most girls. They won’t necessarily be better than every girl, but they will be a lot better than most girls and would take over many of the top spots. Then at the high levels like the Olympics, you’d end up with only transgirl/women athletes because thousands and thousands of athletes are competing for just a small number of spots. The trans athletes wouldn’t just come from the 100 Olympic male athletes on a particular team. They would come from the 100,000 athletes which were all competing for those 100 spots. The sincere transgirl/women athletes competing for Olympic spots are capable of taking over every spot on the women’s team because they are going to be faster and stronger. I can understand how not everyone would care about that, but in the real-world, I can’t see people supporting trans rights if ciswomen no longer have the opportunity to be champions in women sports.
For anyone who would like an actual understanding of incel ideology, I present the link below. Warning: you don’t WANT to understand this crap, it is sickening and vile.
This is a blog called We Hunted The Mammoths - a reference to a common incel phrase (“men are like this and women are like that because…”). It is where I first learned of the term (there wasn’t a name for this shit when I was a teenager, longer ago than I want to admit, but it was around. I knew guys like this.). It’s written by one of the people who’s been point out how fucked up these guys are, long before everyone had heard from them from the mass shooting of the month.
Readers would note that, while Monstro is correct that Incels think men are the poor oppressed minority, the idea that their response would be to want to become trans is absolutely laughable, for two reasons. First, they would NEVER consider an MTF Trans person to be a ‘real’ woman – a view they share with Monstro and YWTF, I might point out. In fact, they react to transgender people with disgust. Second – even if they, unlike Monstro, believed that TWAW – the idea that they would want to become women would be laughable if it didn’t represent such a fundamental misunderstanding of the whole point. I don’t want to get into incel ideology because it is sickening; but 10 minutes at the blog I linked would show that if they could ‘leave’ their ‘caste’, they would want to become dominant men, not women.
Hilariously one of the most recent entries shows what the incels think of men who cross gender roles in any way; you can imagine how they feel about trans people (or find another blog post to see for yourself):
Bah, you can get a real wool kilt for whatever clan your putative Scottish ancestors came from for a tenth of that price.
It’s in the quote – the dress is more of a publicity stunt 
First, there is a doth protest too much quality to your post. Not a good look.
Second, why are you speaking in absolutes about what incel would and wouldn’t believe? Google “transmaxxing”. Do some reading. Understand your assumptions may be based on ignorance.
The only thing that is ridiculous is denying that a boy would ever falsely call themselves trans. It wouldn’t even have to be done maliciously. Since we know that detransitioners exists, we know it’s possible for males to sometimes get the trans thing wrong. That’s why assuming the prevalence will never change is stupid.
Incel ideology is an easy trap…for impressionable teenaged boys who are butthurt over not getting laid. You’re assuming I was talking about all teenaged boys, probably so you can take what I said personally, but your assumption–like much of what you’ve contributed to this thread–is flat-out wrong. And I never posited that they would pretend to be trans. That’s you twisting my words so you can argue a strawman.
Teenagers are notorious for being both sincere and wrong. And under gender ideology, there is no such thing as pretending. Fraudsters can be outed by evidence. There is no “evidence” under gender ideology. Anyone can identify as whatever gender they want, for whatever reason they want, for as short a period of time as they want. Whether a person believes they are trapped in the wrong body or they just want to experience life a different way because they’re tired of the old way…both reasons are perfectly valid reasons to transition. Woe to the person who disagrees and dares to say so out loud, because they’ll be called a transphobe. Even if that person is a 13-year-old girl who just wants to play volleyball in high school without worrying about being outcompeted by individuals who are under the influence of testosterone. Even people who have something tangible to lose by gender ideology are transphobes, according to gender ideologues.
There is absolutely nothing stopping a 15-year-old boy from identifying as a girl and then changing their mind a couple of years down the line when they realize they were just experiencing depression. We should expect this to happen when kids are being inculcated with the notion that transitioning is best way to handle gender dysphoria or anything they perceive as gender dysphoria–whether confirmed by a professional or not. Responsible folks will plan for this so that we don’t end up with a bunch of girls not being able to compete in sports just because a bunch of boys went through a identity crisis in high school and were allowed to compete against girls.
Here’s someone who tried it. 
…this is fantastic news 
I’m glad Rugby Football Union saw sense here. And thank you YWTF for finally posting some positive transgender news here. Its nice to read a positive story for a change instead of the normal doom and gloom.
Transwomen are women. This isn’t about the inclusion of males in female contact sport. Its about transwomen in womens sports. I know many of you “hate the slogan.” But the slogan explains the paradigm.
Did you read that post? It reads exactly like I would expect an incel making shit up would read. He’s oh so smart but as soon as he starts taking estrogen he drifts off into a world where he is dumb and stupid and happy (which is what incels believe women AKA 'Stacy’s are) and just craving sex with men all the time. He ends it basically saying he’s at a turning point-- if he keeps taking estrogen he will be female and dumb and crave dick but be happy; and if he doesn’t he will return to being a pathetic lover of a man and miserable, but smart again.
He LITERALLY talkes about the hormones “dumbing him down”.
If someone thinks that’s a truthful or accurate description of what being female (or at least being on estrogen) is like… they are probably an incel.
Eta: maybe you know that, hence the smilie? In which case, whoosh!
So no concern about the disparity of physical strength, endurance and likely weight between transwomen and women in such an obviously physical sport?