Jackson Pollock

Someone upthread stated that that my view of an art critic does not match up with the actual role of a critic.

I would imagine there are critics and critics, but whatever they are, the vast majority have other agendas they either choose to pursue, or if working for a publication - they must pursue because of the in-house opinion.

So what, ideally, should a critic do - and then perhaps you can illustrate where this may fall down.

The issue for me is that critics become opinion formers and effectively instruct art consumers on what is and is not taste. Art is an industry that has to sell and therefore has many of the same concerns with promotion that other production industries have, but what it sells it intangible and built not only upon opinion but also upon class or social distinctions.

As I said … it’s fun to talk about art, and it’s fun to listen to people who know a lot about art talk about it.

Because of our different backgrounds, we all engage with art in different ways. A critic says “Here’s how I engaged with this piece of art. Here’s how it worked (or didn’t work) for ME.” By learning about how someone else engaged with a work, we can expand our own aesthetic repertoire … we can learn new ways of seeing. Or may we can discover a way to articulate why a particular work leaves us flat.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Look at how many art critics are also tied to dealers, and how many are advisers to purchasers.

For those tied to various publications, there is the question of being tied into the house outlook.

I went to the MoMA in NYC last week and saw a Pollock there. I was not impressed. I will admit that viewing room after room of things like ‘canvas with red square,’ ‘chair with wheel impaled on it,’ and ‘blob of bronze,’ and ‘blob of aluminum’ may have shaded my ability to appreciate it.

That canvas with a red square might very well be the absolute best in canvases with red squares on it, but in the end, it’s still just a canvas with a red square on it. And don’t even get me started on ‘canvas painted entirely white,’ or ‘plank.’

My side-side note, is that for all the stereotyping of Paris being rude, at least at the museums there, the museum staff provide a minimal amount of courtesy to their customers. MoMA? Not even close.

Yeah, minimalism leaves me a bit cold. I don’t quite get it, but, whatever. Plenty of other art to choose from. (Although Barnett Newman has his moments.) Even less extreme stuff like Mondrian gets boring to me after I see one or two of them. (Although “Broadway Boogie Woogie” and “Composition with Gray and Light Brown” I find fun and compelling.)

I don’t know, how many art critics *are *tied to dealers?

Which publications are you talking about, specifically? What are their “outlooks”? Can you provide evidence that these publications refuse to publish reviews that contradict that outlook?

Can you, without Googling, name three prominent, contemporary art critics?

I’m assuming that answering these questions will be a trivial task for you. I’d hate to think that you’d slander an entire profession based on nothing more than the fact that they like things you don’t like.

The wife and I have seen quite a few Pollock paintings in person, and there is definitely what one could call a “method to the madness,” so to speak. We can’t understand how anyone who takes a good look at them can seriously claim a child could do the same.

Oh, and just for the record, I went to the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art last December. They had an entire gallery filled with consumer electronics: record players, radios, electric razors - even an iPod. And the exhibit wasn’t an ironic re-contextualization, or anything. It was a straightforward examination of the Bauhaus school of industrial design, and the effects it continues to have on contemporary products.

Of course. Beauty is beauty. Whether it’s a well-designed font, or a slick iPad, a Paul Rand corporate logo, or a Pollock splash painting, it’s all the same to me. Some people do make a distinction between “fine art” (that serves no purpose other than being art) and “decorative art” or “applied art” which is functional. I personally do not find that distinction particular important other than in a descriptive sense. A lot of Asian and Islamic art is decorative, but that doesn’t in any way diminish its worth or beauty to me.

I imagine they’d be fairly easy to spot in a crowd.

Actually, if you did it as well as Pollock I would probably think it was Pollock’s work, because as I said I’m not much of an art expert. But at any rate, if I found it evocative, I would say so. You’re basically saying I’m being dishonest in my assessment, based on nothing more than the fact that I said I like Pollock’s work.

Yeah, guess how much I care about the hype? I own prints of two paintings (neither of them by Pollock), both because they looked nice in my living room. I am not part of the evil art establishment you seem to be railing against.

Come on, you’re going to dispute my personal emotional reactions to things? De gustibus non disputandum est and all that.

But anyway, do you deny that a person can find, say, a campfire to be emotionally evocative? (Not you necessarily, but some person.) And if those random swirls of color can be evocative, why not paint deliberately dripped on canvas?

You really think it so much more likely that I am lying to support some agenda than that I’m just genuinely reporting my reactions to things which you happen to react differently to?

A three year old can’t do it. I have a three year old. I’ve seen her art, I’ve seen the art of her pre-school classmates. Even if you think Jackson Pollock’s work is complete shit, I am quite certain you could distinguish it from that of the average 3-year-old 100% of the time.

Well speaking of art critics,

Brian Sewell - very well known over in UK land, and probably much wider, ironically he is not a fan of modern art, especially things like the Turner awards - he has had his own tv series, highly jargonised and frequently indecipherable. He seems to me to be very much a class ridden little man whose sole aim in life appears to be to ensure that the proles are not to be brought into his exclusive little world.

The best of them, as far as I was concerned was Tom Lubbock who wrote for the Independent, at least he did try to make art more accessible, shame he passed on some time ago.

Those are the only two that spring to mind at present, I used to read The Guardian but that was years ago, I don’t even remember any articles in it.

I’ve seen a few show where artists were explaining what they were doing and why, Hockney seemed to have ideas that are still developing into very new technologies, but he also revealed a lot about how we all observe things, in a way that was accessible and educational, a visit to his gallery at Salt Mill is well worth the time.

In contrast there was some other person whose name I did not give the dignity of remembering, and to my mind what he produced was utter rubbish.

That second artist is apparently quite well known for his landscapes, but as I watched his programme, I couldn’t help but wonder if he was taking the piss, sure seemed as if I was being wooshed. The program followed him creating work in his studio through to the gallery - he took one enormous canvas, started painting in a very Rolf Harris like manner, but not as well done, then he just took a large 2inch pencil brush and used it to slop paint over this canvas. Later he laid the canvas on the floor and walked around on it with his Wellington boots on it. He even took an old bicycle and dragged the wheels over the wet canvas, smearing it all about. Eventually the greenish brownish mess was allowed to dry out, having nothing in it that was distinguishable. He then cut out a picture size piece of a bit of it he seemed to like - perhaps four feet by three or thereabouts and burned the remainder.

The cut-out was framed and hung in the gallery.

Folk came around to see this work, which looked pretty much like a muddy greenish smudge of error in a camouflage factory - it was truly rubbish, its not jut that it didn’t resemble anything, but the process of producing it was so unskilled, and he could not explain what was intended. I do not mean that in the instinctive unconscious production of genius - so he waited for the critics to come along and tell him what it was about - what it meant - and the critics told him about his inspiration. I honestly felt he had just produced some tat and waited for the critics to justify it for him.

Had this been the work of a first year art student, it would never have made a gallery, the only reason it did was his name.

We see it as a bit of fun, where a horse or a very young child puts some smears on a canvas, it gets a showing in a gallery and the critics line up to appreciate it - its been done a number of times as a tv show. They are given enough leeway to make themselves look stupid, and the critics grab it with both hands.

I mean come on what’s with that horse that paints? Forgotten the name of it now but a few smears from a 3 inch brush whose handle was stuffed into the animal’s mouth which then slaps it around a bit and the work will sell for good money.

There have been works produced by monkeys that were mistaken as being by well established artists, those images initially had quite a high value, until the truth was revealed and of course the value dropped to zero. This is a good reason to wonder why provenance is so important - well of course it is important, in the advent of some indecipherable smear on a canvas, the provenance might be the only thing that lends any merit at all to some art.

I expect the counter to this is that maybe art is not just a human thing, however there surely has to be a mind and intent behind it, even random patterns can look pleasant but are hardly meaningful.

Sometimes I do wonder if artists themselves are making a point about ‘pseudo’ art just to see what they can get away with.

That last post is a hot mess. I’m trying to puzzle out any meaning from it. Are you . . . are you saying Jackson Pollock was a horse?

It’s obvious to anyone reading casdave’s post that he spent some time on Wikipedia today. Many of the things he mentions are written about in the very first Wiki summary paragraph.

On top of that, nobody who regularly reads art criticism would state that Sewell “is not a fan of modern art”.

Peggy Guggenhenheim: The same people who wouldn’t piss on Paris Hilton if she were on fire are willing to go to the ends of the earth to defend the artistic opinion of a socialite who was only famous for her wealth and last name.

Hans Namuth: Pre-internet, publicity was the name of the game. You get people to buy the hype first, the “artistic quality” comes later.

  1. Pollock’s paintings aren’t random.
  2. What does meaning have to do with art?

Except, of course, literally no one – assuming you’re talking about this thread – has done that.

If I had a chance to go a little out of my way to piss on Paris Hilton, I’d take it. In fact, I’d then take her dress and see if I could sell it as a piece of art.

Actually, I’m pretty sure the only reason she’s famous is she had extremely good taste in art.

I’m not aware of Paris Hilton’s taste in art, so I can’t say whether I’d have more or less respect for her opinions than I do for Peggy Guggenheim.

Who the fuck is Peggy Guggenhenheim? Any relation to John D. Rockcockafeller?