James Harrison returns his kids' trophies

[FuriousGeorge]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

What the fuck?

Dude, I’ve been mentally saying that while trying to parse your shit since your first post to this thread.

[Jas09]

@bump

Even more “serious” sports like football do the same thing, in a somewhat more surreptitious way. How many varsity lettermen were seniors who managed to get in enough downs during garbage time during their senior season in order to get the letter jacket? On our team, it was probably 25% of the team. Just about every good player was getting their 2nd or 3rd letter, as they’d been good enough to be on the team as a sophomore or junior. But the bench-riding scrubs still got letters if they managed to play in like 4 games, even if that meant the last drive during huge blowouts. It’s the same thing as a participation trophy for smaller kids.

Exactly what I came here to post. The idea of providing a token of recognition for putting in the effort to stay with the team/club/organization regardless of how successful the group was or how significant your individual contribution is ubiquitous.

Folks that are all worked up about little kids getting trophies because the kids are losers are very confusing to me. Adolescence is tough enough without trying to make it even more like adulthood.

[Superhal]

Parent issue is a big deal. This is how it went for me:

First achievement: Wow, you’re actually going to be a starter? We’re going to the game!
First First Place Trophy: Well, we’re going to put it on the TV so everybody can see!
5th: Batting champ is nice.
10th: Why do they keep giving you those things?
20th: Enough already, put them in your room.
30th: Nice ceremony, when are you going for a doctorate?
10 years later: You really gonna hold on to all this junk?

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

So who do they bully now? Are there enough spots on the team for all their targets?

Holy shit, I don’t think you realize how perfectly opposing your two quotes above are. People who have strong opposition to participation medals are the same people who value knocking other people’s dick in the dirt - a phrase I learned from a coach when I played high school football. It is this mentality - the pussification of America - that has to go. Not the pernicious effects of giving trophies to kids. This mentality also seems strongest among those who were at best middling athletes when they were young - the ones who need their kids to make up for their own failings. I’ve been a fan of James Harrison as a player for a long time, but he’s the last athlete I would hope for any child to emulate.

Is it? How do you know? What evidence is there that kids who have their losses clearly and fully with all available ensigns, affirmed by adults in early to mkddle childhood do better than kids who don’t?

You know what will teach kids that life is rough and you’ll have shitty days? Life. Life will not spare any opportunity to let you know how very shitty it can be. Do you really think that as an eight year old kid, having failed to get a cheap plastic trinket in affirmation that you were not as good as someone else will really change how you respond to life’s real lessons?

It doesn’t seem like the athletes on your son’s football team are moving through life as ambassadors of strong positive life coping skills. Bullying other kids unless they are wearing your same jersey seems like abhorrent coping skills. Maybe if they had gotten some actual coping skills taught to them rather than getting the message that you are better than the other kids when you knock their dick in the dirt they would be able to handle life a little better now.

:rolleyes:

I think you’re reading a little too far into my statement. Bullies are going to exist no matter what current campaign exists to educate and eliminate them. So the old axiom about standing up to a bully no longer applies? When my son squares off against a kid that used to be one of the ones that picked on him and at least holds his own in a one-on-one drill, he earned grudging respect. Why? Because he’s out there getting his “dick knocked in the dirt” and “knocking other dicks into the dirt” as well.

I’m sorry if you can’t grok that these are kids and they are immature, but they do respect effort, sweat and a lack of intimidation, even if my son doesn’t have the athletic gifts that some of the others have. It’s good enough for him and for me, and it’s not like the entire team is made up of bullies, although anyone that knows football knows that unleashing a certain element of violence is how the game is played. This is the one place where my son “fails” in the football sense. He’s just too easygoing to ever be a great football player, and I’m fine with that too. I’m not one of the crazy parents screaming on the sidelines about their precious snowflake killing some other kid or needing more playing time, or even yelling at the refs.

And I also disagree that the introduction of competition at a young age is a bad thing. Life is competitive and always will be. The sooner kids learn that (along with your aforementioned life skills) the better they will be.

It’s not really rocket science. My “pussification” comment wasn’t intended to be at odds with the bully factor I mentioned, more a general statement about kids today in many respects (sports, academics, videogames, whatever) than a specific reference to the topic of football.

And no, I was not a middling athlete, I played WR for the Ohio State Buckeyes and used to return kicks for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. It’s all on YouTube.

[UberArchetype]

I believe the whole point is its not about the kids - its about the parents not being comfortable or competent at the tasks involved with cultivating winners.

[bump]

@Jas09

Exactly what I came here to post. The idea of providing a token of recognition for putting in the effort to stay with the team/club/organization regardless of how successful the group was or how significant your individual contribution is ubiquitous.

Folks that are all worked up about little kids getting trophies because the kids are losers are very confusing to me. Adolescence is tough enough without trying to make it even more like adulthood.

It occurs to me that the military, which is kind of the ultimate in high-stakes competition, does something similar.

Even soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines who never actually see an enemy or leave the safety of a base/FOB will get campaign medals like the Global War on Terrorism medal for being part of the war. Hell, they even struck a “Army of Occupation” medal for award to military people who served in Germany or Japan AFTER the war for some specified period.

It doesn’t hurt anything, and certainly doesn’t confuse anyone who actually knows what a Bronze Star/DFC/Silver Star/DSC/Navy Medal/MOH looks like. Clearly the practice has some benefit, because militaries the world over have struck campaign and commemorative medals like this for a long, long time.

Giving little trophies to kids who were on the team, and who were essentially practice fodder for the better kids, or who filled roster slots and didn’t play much seems to be to be the exact same thing.

[Superhal]

Also I want to throw in here that many examples are not traditionally team sports. If you are on the “golf” team or “bowling” team, it’s still about individuals needing to perform. Those not allowed to perform do not contribute to the single winners. In baseball, football, volleyball, and so forth, any minimal contribution (participation) results in a team win.

[doreen]

I grew up and still live in NYC. From the time my son was eight until he was about 20, he played in pickup baseball, football and basketball games. The teams did not always have the “official " number of participants” and the rules were sometimes modified to account for that. Maybe its a city vs suburb thing.

And regarding high school teams taking all comers - that depends on the school and the sport. Plenty of kids in my son’s high school didn’t make any baseball or basketball team ( not varsity, not JV, not freshman) but anyone who was interested was on the varsity bowling team.