Different claimed abilities would call for different protocols, which is why the rules for the original MDC are what they are. It is impossible(AFAIK) to design a general protocol that would fit the general “psychic” population. It takes much longer for tester and testee to design a special protocol for each test, but it eliminates the “But your test wasn’t designed for my abilities!” whining.
Ah, I was thinking of a test aimed at the majority of the spirit guide/talk to the dead/extrasensory knowledge psychics. There should be a common thread there that’s testable.
I know that doesn’t cover everyone, but I was hoping they might educate a large percentage of the deluded out there.
I agree the specific tests designed per person are the best way to go, I was considering what to do if nobody was providing that anymore.
You mean a bit like those fleets of robotic ocean probes that can provide data for large-scale, but incredibly subtle phenomena that aren’t readily distinguishable from random noise at a local level?
It’s an interesting idea.
There is no conflict between the two statements at all.
The first one says you are trying to make up the rules which you can’t do, and the second suggests for you to study and learn the rules that are in place. No conflict.
Wait, I remember this part… I believe this is the point where someone says “okay, tell me, what are the rules for how the spiritual and physical worlds interact and how did you learn them?” and lekatt responds with something to the effect that he can’t/doesn’t have time to teach them all to you, you have to seek them out yourself/do your own studies/etc., and (if he’s feeling particularly helpful) provides a link to his own website as a “jumping off” point for your spiritual and intellectual journey.
“It’s ‘Groundhog Day’ all over again!”
–Yogi Berra, approximately
I think it’s worth a shot, so I’ve started a thread for designing a common test for one of the most common claimed abilities-dowsing.
OK, thanks for that clarification - I had misinterpreted your wording. Can you tell us what some of the rules are?
Actually, someone who plays *Chopsticks *is a piano player. Now, if you want to distinguish between a piano player and a pianist by asserting that the latter is highly skilled, well that’s just fine, but they both still play the piano. To follow your analogy, Randi is de facto claiming that any piano playing at all is impossible, and anyone who can prove otherwise can win a million dollars. Playing *Chopsticks *would qualify.
Even the tiniest bit of psychic ability, when replicated in a controlled environment, seals the deal.
I can play “Chopsticks,” and have done so many times. It’s not something I can do every time, and it doesn’t always sound exactly like “Chopsticks”-- sometimes it’s just a bunch of notes that sound random. Only people who have studied a long time can recognize it as “Chopsticks.”
I will not take Randi’s “Chopsticks” challenge because my ability to play “Chopsticks” can be affected by the negative energy of skeptics in the room. Plus, Randi has shown many many times that he is a charlatan and that the “Chopsticks” challenge is a fraud. It is well-known that he will only accept the challenge using his own piano, which is tuned in a way that makes playing the “Chopsticks” notes impossible. This has been proven many times; the evidence is out there so I’m not going to tell you where to look for it.
Even if the challenge were real, I could not take the money because I can only play “Chopsticks” to help others, and not for my own personal gain. I have healed dozens of people by playing “Chopsticks” for them over the years. One person was clinically dead for three weeks, and I played “Chopsticks” and brought him back to life. You don’t have to take my word for it; the proof of this is out there on www.vtraisedthedeadbyplayingchopsticks.com and many other sites.
We are all concert pianists to some extent, some more than others.
If that link were live it would have been awesome, no matter what it pointed at.
This is true! I saw Vinyl playing on TV. So all you skeptics can stick it! It is here on the interweb and on TV and I know. You can’t define the rules of playing chopsticks–don’t cross the beams dammit–didn’t you watch Ghostbusters? I am more emotionally mature then you so pltthhhhh. Take that. You tell them Vinyl…wait…you are a Turnip? Fuck why doesn’t anybody on the other side tell me these damn things!
Well I’m convinced. Where do I send the check?
The physical world is a creation of the spiritual world. We are spiritual first and then decide to have a physical experience. In order to experience the spiritual we must lower our focus in the physical. This can be done with meditation. Clearing the mind of all thoughts. You can not force the spiritual to be seen, you can only allow it to be seen. This is a good start.
I thougt about it and why is so impressive that Geller claims to have confounded scientists? Making a object move without touching it doesn’t require any great feat of science - one coud use a hidden magnet, a string, or be subtly blowing on it, or tipping the table, or any number of mundane methods, so it doesn’t matter if Geller can confuse scientists or MENSA members or Nobel Prize winners - their qualifications are irrelvant.
Now, if Geller could confound a group of professional magicians who have direct expertise in the methods described above, then I’d be impressed; very impressed.
I think we can forget Randi. He has no credibility among psychics.
::golf clap::
You can’t buy irony like that…
I can’t think of higher praise than that.
I am glad you enjoyed it.
Wow. I can’t believe I actually took the time to read all eight pages of this.
Here’s what stands out in my mind: this is all being made far too complicated.
If someone walked up to me and said, “I can bend a 2’ piece of 1/2” rebar to a 90-degree angle with my bare hands," I’d go get a 2’ piece of 1/2" rebar, hand it to him in an empty room of my choosing, and wait for him to bend it. If he did it, I’d tell the world about this tough dude that could bend a 2’ piece of 1/2" rebar to a 90-degree angle with his bare hands. It’s pass-fail. I’d be convinced.
Houdini did exactly the same thing with the secret code he and his wife worked out. They both wanted communication from beyond the grave. She spent ten years trying to find one single medium that could do it. Pass-fail. Zero success. I’m convinced the whole field is fraudulent.
So stop with the probabilities and do the same with all of the claims. You can move objects with your mind? Fine. Here’s an empty room with my table in it and an object on the table. Make it small and light. A paper clip. A small piece of paper. Stand 5’ from the table and lift that object up in the air. Hold it there for a few seconds. I’ll be convinced. Can’t do it? Shut up.
Unfortunately, people want to be deluded. I was catching up on some old reading last month and read an article about the show “Haunting Evidence.” It’s been renewed despite the first season having a ZERO percent success rate. Yep. People watch it and the network kept it despite never having one single solitary success.
No. There’s no spectrum. Either God exists or not. Either telekinesis exists or it doesn’t. There has never been one single case where psychic ability was proven. There are six billion people on the planet. Doesn’t that tell you something?
Unfortunately, if the claim is “I can guess Zener cards 10% more accurately than the next guy”, while you can make a pass/fail test for this, it’s not going to be just one simple test. Depending on the claim, sometimes probabilities are necessary.
Of course it’s much simpler if the person makes the claim that they can succeed 100% of the time. You can make me pee with your mind? 100% of the time? Fine: one test, and that’s that. But we’re not just interested in perfect performance; anything verifiable would be interesting. So sometimes things have to get more complicated.