Jamie Oliver and chickens

Lazy? To hell with saving money and food? How high is that horse?

I have a real problem with “foodies” who transform their own personal eating habits into a tirade against those who are different. How is it that you assume I am “lazy” because I don’t enjoy cooking? I’m happy to have you visit me on a “typical” evening, when I am running my house, pursuing my preferred hobbies, playing with my children and talking to my husband. That’s on top of work, college, making items for my consignment sales and just taking a break sometimes.

You’re right - I’m lazy and horrid :rolleyes:

Note to all people who enjoy spending time on food prep - not everyone does. And, of those that don’t, it doesn’t mean they’re eating Twinkies and Pepsi. I can make a very nice dinner with “frozen chicken boobs”, real mashed potatoes and some canned peas. Gasp! It tastes fine to us, and then I can spend my limited time with people I love, not chickens.

“Won’t someone please think about the chickens!!”

I don’t care if the chickens are forced to watch American Idol 24 hours a day as long as it tastes good on the grill.

My bolding - and my point precisely. Don’t you see the contradiction in caring so little about where something has come from, how it has come to exist, when it’s ending up on your plate?

Again: seek out the book The Omnivore’s Dilemma. Feel free to make whatever food choices you like, but be aware that they are choices, and be aware of their implications.

We put significantly more effort into deciding what car to buy than into determining each day the nourishment that should go into our stomachs.

On the question of “why would anyone pay more for a free range/organic/gold plated chicken?” question … aside from the “it tastes better” reason, as a consumer I know that my purchasing decisions have a direct impact on the industries I buy from. The only signal I have to say “let’s be a bit nicer to our chickens” is to buy chickens from places who are nicer to them.

I don’t like the way most commercial coffee pickers are treated so I try to buy only fair trade coffee. I don’t like large-scale industrial corporate retail environments so I try to buy from local businesses. I don’t like the blood trade in diamonds so when I want diamonds, I buy fair trade ones. I don’t like the way virgin old growth rain forests are used to make paper, so I only buy paper made from recycled fibres.

Obviously none of these actions on my part are going to change any corporate activities, but if I can help increase the market for alternatives to practices I don’t like, then I am doing a small bit of good. As individuals we do have a small measure of control over large-scale industrial practices that we may not like; individual purchasing decisions are the way to express it.

Again, why the assumption? I have not read this particular book, but I have read all sorts of things about food and diet, including Fast Food Nation, Fat Land, and have watched Discovery Channel shows, Spurlock’s movie, etc. Yet you have assumed I have an “Unexamined Plate”

I just printed out the intro and 1st chapter of that book, along with a rather lengthy piece from the New York Times. From skimming, it looks like I won’t be picking up the full book, since it looks like just another spanking from a pro-organic, PETA member.

My favorite thing to do is to think about stuff. And I have spent many, many hours thinking about what I and my family eat. And, based on available evidence, guess what? I’ve decided that, among the many things I have to worry about, chickens don’t rate very high. And cooking - I’ve made several attempts to start “cooking” - you know what - I don’t like it very much.

“Be aware” of my food and the implications of what I eat? Sorry, I guess I haven’t reached the zen state of total awareness about the food chain. How many hours of meditation did it take you? :rolleyes:

I for one would never condemn anyone for buying whatever they chose to. It is YOUR personal choice, whether it’s for economic reasons, or because you really don’t give a shit. I do respect your choices, I just want to be able to show people that there are consequences, and you actually can eat better and a lot more healthier without a big increase in cost or effort.

I choose to raise and sell poultry because I was not happy with the way the business of our food is being taken over by multinationals in not just Canada, but world-wide. There is a reason that some folks are rebelling and starting organizations Like Slow Food and Heritage Seeds and Heritage Livestock . I could list many many other great organizations, but my point is, it is a world wide concern, and it is being initiated and addressed my people just like you and me.

You can argue all you want that factory farms are not harmful to animals, but unless you have actually been in one, well quite frankly, you are just talking through your ass. I can’t eat veal because as a child I went into my uncles barn where he raised veal cattle. I actually get physically sick if I eat it to this day.

Holy moly, €12??? That is an awfully expensive chicken.

The final section of the book is a detailed recounting of the author’s experience hunting, butchering, and cooking a wild pig.

So your assumptions are your mistake, and your loss.

Hey, did it ever occur to you that maybe I’m not talking about you specifically? Of course that can’t be it. Feel free to talk about my high horse. :rolleyes:

I’m talking about 99% of people I work with, who order fast food every day for lunch and repeatedly say how they spend too much money on lunches. Duh, no shit you do. You don’t need to bring in leftover fancy crap but a sandwich, piece of fruit and another snack thing takes about 3 minutes to put together.

No shit, not everyone wants to spend tons of time cooking. That doesn’t mean that everything has to come out of a box or a can. And if you cook that way? I don’t give a shit! Just don’t bitch to me about how what you cook tastes like crap and you wish you could cook like me. I’m lazy too, and I cook things that do most of the work themselves (simmering away or baking in an oven). If you use pre-made shit, I don’t care unless you complain about how the stuff tastes, and believe me, I’ve heard that a lot.

Did I say I never buy “frozen chicken boobs”? Why, no, I didn’t! I buy them quite frequently. They can come in handy when you do need a quick meal that’s made from real food. Hell, I’ve made boxes of ‘rice mix’; I just admit that it’s the lazy way out. Doesn’t mean that people who use them are going to hell, like you seem determined to believe I feel. :rolleyes: This isn’t the pit, so I won’t say what I’m really thinking, but not everything is about YOU, sweetie.

To be fair to the whole ‘freedom chicken’ movement, intensively-farmed birds actually don’t tend to taste so good as those that are raised free range - for a whole list of reasons, including speed of development, quality and composition of feed, exercise, etc. In a way, caring that it tastes good on the grill is caring about having it produced with a little bit of care, rather than an all-out industrial drive to produce the maximum weight of chicken meat in the smallest unit area of farm.

Well, just as you felt offended at a slam, so did I. Your post did sound a little arrogant. I apologize for painting you with a broad brush. However…

I do not feel that using “rice mix” is lazy. I will not “admit that it’s the lazy way” because I don’t feel it is.

How is it “lazy”?

Having been smacked around in another thread for mentioning many of the issues addressed in this thread, I’m a bit wary. However, I’ll jump in. I will, however, restrain myself to a short post and it will take restraint because Food is a subject I am passionate about - Food and Food Farming.

Having the luxury of plenty of time, I cook “from scratch” most days. Everyone did, once, but there are many demands on our time nowadays; some are for necessities and others are not. For example, I can find the time to spend hours a week fooling around on the internet, but I hire someone to clean my house.

I choose to buy local, free-range chicken and eggs, which is easy for me as I am a farmer myself. I raise beef and lamb and put in a garden every year, can my own jams, jellies, pickles, tomatoes, salsa, etc. These are, I know, luxuries to many people: but luxuries are, after all, the things we can choose and these are my choices.

I am surrounded by industrial chicken and turkey farms here, and while I am no fan of the way they raise meat birds, I have never heard of nor seen meat birds kept in battery cages. The beef and lamb I raise is pasture fed and not grain finished. I have raised dozens and dozens of veal calves over the years and have never mistreated one nor seen it done anywhere: raising veal is an iffy business at best, calves are delicate and tend to die if they aren’t kept in good conditions.

BTW: crops are not sprayed with fertilizers, plants do not absorb fertilizer through their leaves but through their roots. Contamination can occur, certainly, but not because the leaves are sprayed, whether that fertilizer be compost or chemicals.

“The Omnivore’s Dilemma” is an extremely interesting and valuable look at how American food gets into American stomachs. It is not, as someone implied, a PETA manifesto, but a clear-eyed and rational examination of some aspects of food production. I doubt that anyone could read it without understanding how the world of growing food, transporting food, cooking food, and eating have changed since the end of WW II. Nor could anyone fail to understand that the choices we make when we buy food are important choices, that our diets and desires are having an enormous impact on the earth. Since Americans and Canadians spend the least portion of their incomes on food on the planet, I fail to understand the shrieks of outrage over the cost of a free range chicken. We spend about 7 - 9% of our incomes on food, whereas at the end of WW II it was closer to 20% and we still lived like kings compared to most people in the world.

Another very thought-provoking book is The 100 Mile Diet, by Alisa Smith and J. B. MacKinnon. (Vintage Canada, a division of Random House.) In it the authors describe the year they spent living on food from within a 100 mile circle of their Vancouver apartment. I do not follow this diet slavishly, but I make a real effort to buy local when I can. And I will not buy any food from China, nor at Walmart. Small potatoes, to be sure, but I am doing what I can.

Said I’d be brief . . . the worst of modern industrial farming is not the problem of animal cruelty, although that problem exists. The worsts: the destruction of the soil by intensive, monocultural cropping; the use or overuse of fresh water resources; the destruction of land ill-suited for any kind of cropping at all; the vast stockpiles of animal manures that are, in fact, toxic waste and unusable for fertilizer; the poisoning of field workers and the land by herbicides and pesticides; the destruction of the gene pools for many plant species . . .no, better stop.

I think we can do much better. I am not advocating a sudden abandonment of modern farming methods, but that we should begin to farm as stewards of the land and not miners.

No. No they don’t.

Don’t you see my point.

I’m talking about my personal cleanliness, when the chicken reaches my plate it’s a clean as clean can be

Are you most people?

Moving thread from IMHO to Cafe Society.

Are you?

I am most people. I haven’t tried this substitute chicken stuff so it is not possible to say how most people react to it.

Nice to see this has become an intelligent thought-provoking discourse.