Japanese Americans Actually Had A Conspiracy Against the US?

Now, let me make clear I do not believe this at all.

However in a book I read, The Golden Road on the history of El Camino Real and more generally of California it says that a few months after Pearl Harbor caches of weapons were discovered in Monterey and that mysterious lights were seen of the California coast. In addition the author states that Japanese-American farmers settled near such strategic locations as power plants, airfields, and oilfields. The author uses this evidence to suggest that at least some Japanese-Americans were plotting against the US government to sabotage the war effort. Is there any evidence to this theory?

In spite of fears of sabotage at the time, there’s no evidence of sabotage or espionage by Japanese-Americans in World War II.

I can think of a few questions:

Aren’t an awful lot of airfields, oilfields and power plants located out in the same kind of open space that makes for good farmland? All the smaller airports I knew in the Midwest (from skydiving) were literally surrounded by crops. All of those things need a lot of flat, cheap land and you don’t tend to put them in the middle of cities.

How did the numbers of Japanese American farmers in those areas compare with other farmers?

What is the evidence of caches of weapons and how were those actually linked to those Americans?

IIRC the Japanese did in fact get submarines off the West Coast of the US so no shock there. Nor would it be a shock to think that after Pearl Harbor people in coastal areas would get mighty jumpy and report every light (real or imagined) and it’d get treated as a “potential enemy vessel”. How are those sightings linked to Japanese-Americans?

Other than a few “tourists” taking pictures and such of Pearl Harbor, there wasn;t much. Fears of Japanese-American saboteurs were groundless

OTOH, our other reason for the Internments camps- protecting them from riots and such- seemed to be at least partially valid.

(anecdote is not datum, and all that, but):

The day after Pearl Harbor was a schoolday, and my dad was a second-grader in Glendale, California. When he arrived at school, all the kids were buzzing around the water fountain in the playground. When he worked his way through the mob, he saw that it was because someone had scalped a Japanese kid and put it in there.

Scalped as in actually removed the flesh down to the skull? That’s cold-blooded murder, not rioting.

I doubt it was “cold-blooded,” and while not technically a riot, still indicative that things could get ugly.

Stay away from the Michelle Malkin crap, if you can :eek: (she believes that Japanese Americans deserved to have their rights taken away during the war)

I don’t think that’s good advice. I think the better advice is to read her book, and research her claims to find out if her argument is justified. In general, I’ve found, when you’re trying to learn about a topic is never to stay away from a point of view, but critically read about all different points of view and make up your own mind.

There probably weren’t many but it’s difficult to believe that no Japanese-Americans at all had sympathies which lay with Japan and were used by the Japanese to provide information. That’s not casting a slur on Japanese-Americans but you’ll always get some bad apples, just as some German-Americans spied for Germany.

The right sure is re-writing history lately. Buchanan defends Hitler, the Nazis were left wing, Rockefeller was a communist. Next it’ll be that slaves were oppressing the owners. I guess once you put aside actually caring about facts you can believe anything.

None of it even makes sense. Liberals were both Facists and Communists at the same time even though they were deadly enemies. If Buchanan thinks Hitler was a good guy does that means the liberals were on the right side?

Alot of the talk about conspiracy back then revolved around Shigenori Nishikaichi’s crash landing. He was a Japanese pilot that crashed on the small Hawaiian island. There was about 125 people on the island and most of them were native Hawaiia of Ni‘ihau’ns. Shigenori Nishikaichi was captured and some Japanese on the island were asked to translate. The pilot informed the Japanese about the bombing on Pearl Harbor and the translator decided not to tell the Hawaiians about the bombing. Soon the Hawaiians found out and confronted the Japanese civilians and they told what they knew. The Hawaiians informed the US military, but before military could arrive, three Japanese civilians freed the pilot. To make a long story short, there was hostage taking, chasing, head crushing, throat slitting and seppuku.

I’m sure that this incident helped fuel rumors of a Japanese conspiracy happening among civilians in the USA.

Nope, no real credible evidence. certainly nothing as good as the weapons of mass destruction for Iraq. There was a lot of " yellow perile" type predjudice.

Some Nissei buddies of mine growing up thought that at the heart of it, the Japanese Americans were largely farmers in a war economy when food and agricultural land were at a premo

Good, your disbelief does you credit, because the “evidence” summarized is worthless. Taking it point by point:

I’m assuming this is The Golden Road: the story of California’s Spanish mission trail (1962) by Felix Riesenberg, yes?

Without knowing what the incident was, and not finding it through some google book searches, I can’t be sure of the details. That said, there’s nothing sinister about such a find. If the incident is as reported by the book, it’s meaningless - there’s no suggestion that the weapons were Japanese or that they were on an issei’s land or other connection to Japanese-American immigrants. If such a connection did exist, no doubt the author would have found that significant enough to mention.

Further casting doubt on this story, however, is the fact that a Nexis newspaper and wire seach finds no stories of any weapons cache in or near Monterey between 1941 and 1943. I believe the author may have taken rumor and reported it as fact. This is not uncommon in some popular histories.

Doubly meaningless. “Mysterious lights” at sea are not uncommon sights along the shore. Merchant vessels, lightning at sea, temperature inversions causing strange reflections, etc. can all cause “mysterious” lights. They’re only mysterious because the observer doesn’t know the cause and remain mysterious only because this author didn’t bother investigating any of these reports.

In the first flush of wartime paranoia, US forces were sent wild chasing such reports, all with no result. With the steady drumbeat of bad news from the Pacific theater until 1942, it’s no surprise that Californians thought there was nothing stopping the Japanese fleet from appearing offshore any day. This was in fact a common fear.

There was exactly one real incident where the mysterious lights weren’t just wartime paranoia. The Japanese submarine I-17 shelled the oilfield near Santa Barbara, California. Damage was minimal, but it caused an even greater invasion panic along the west coast.

So did European-American farmers, and Hispanic-American farmers, and any farmer at all. As mentioned above, many of these are sited in large, flat areas, which just happen to be great for farming. Oilfields are all over parts of Southern California, and finding a place to settle that’s not near one would be difficult. Futhermore, in California many strategic locations weren’t built until the late 30’s through the early war period - the farmers were probably there first. Again, the author is reporting rumor as fact without investigation and defaulting to the most sinister interpretation possible.

Not as shown by this author. There is the Nihau Incident Gary Baldy summarized, but that’s the only proven incident of Japanese-Americans in the US helping Japanese forces. Although Michelle Malkin has seized on this incident to justify the internement policy and suggested it helped inform the internment policy, the evidence I’ve seen suggests the report on the incident never reached the decision-makers that guided the policy.

[Moderator note]

Political commentary of this kind is inappropriate for GQ. No warning issued, but don’t do this again.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

But what about Lucille Ball’s fillings?

This is meaningless because its not falsifiable. What exactly is near? Can it be explained through more mundane explanations? Its like when psychics say “You will find the body near water or in a wooded area.” That criteria is pretty much anywhere.

Well, sure, but they rounded up 11,000 Germans and German-Americans, and approximately half as many Italians and Italian-Americans.

By contrast, over a hundred thousand Japanese-Americans were interned. Hard to believe that racial considerations didn’t come into play there.

Well, to be honest, Japanese Americans are easier to spot than German or Italian Americans. Both by the people who might want to hurt them and by the people who might want to help them.

I am NOT defending the idea of rounding up any people, or defending what America did. I am just pointing out how the number disparity doesn’t seem totally off base.

Er… no they’re not.