So I know that Leno is a huge car enthusiast, and has a massive collection. This WSJ article is fascinating - it talks about how his 110,000 sqft. garage is equipped with state of the art fabrication equipment, a full-time team of mechanics, etc. He states that the game has really changed with 3D printing - he can take an old non-functional part, scan it, clean up the scanned designed, create a 3D mold from that design, and cast a brand new part. Which is obviously much cheaper and less time-intensive than tracking down a 100 year old part, of which only a handful might exist. But one thing that struck me was near the end:
I don’t know much about cars, especially old cars. But one thing I do know is that “original” is one of the most important things when evaluating old cars. At least, I thought it was. I’m guessing the line between “functional” and “non-functional” is the gap being bridged by using fabricated parts that makes these cars soar in value? Anyone know?
“Original” is very fluid in the collectible car business. Lately there has been an upsurge in unrestored or “preservation” class cars where nothing has been replaced, repainted etc.
Original can range from that (nothing replaced) to only NOS (new old stock) parts to reconditioned or exactly reproduced parts.
Originality of parts can affect price but not as much as rarity, popularity, quality of restoration/condition and the ever present “rule of the greater fool”.
Original parts or not, I’d wager that a driveable car is worth more than a pile of unusable parts.
At what point might you get into a Car of Theseus situation? eg: How many parts do you change or replace before Grandpa’s Model T is no longer the same car, even though it is still a Model T and it’s been in the family for 75 years? Do you care?
I’m guess that last part translates to “it’s worth whatever the most foolish person is willing to pay for it”?
So, I guess we’re looking at a couple things. I’d imagine that Leno has deep enough pockets to find the best conditioned “preservation” class cars out there, and has a team qualified to do one of the better restoration jobs imaginable. And once they resort to fabricating their own parts, it’s likely that those parts just weren’t accessible as originals to begin with. I can see work on that level adding a ton of value. I wonder how much his collection has accrued in value versus the amount of resources he pours into it, including paying a full staff of mechanics!
No, not the most foolish. They guy who bought and over-restores that '62 Valiant because of nostalgia for his first time will have to find a greater fool than he to sell it for a profit
Regarding making money - a mechanic friend once traced his time and expenses on his restoration of a rare Austin Healey that set an auction record when sold. He made $0.37/hour.
What is the effect of something like repainting on the value a Model T? I imagine that the original formula of paint is no longer used and that the modern stuff is way better in quality. But would this still reduce the value as it is non-original paint? Or does it increase the value of the car since it repairs old damage and improves the appearance?
I’ve heard of aircraft restorers at the Smithsonian stamping “Reproduction” on any part that they had to fabricate. This is to clarify things for future researchers. They do it because they fabricate replacement parts to the exact specifications in old plans and in 100 years it may be difficult to tell which parts are original simply by looking.
Many of Leno’s ultra-valuable cars are in a level of rare where originality is irrelevant; if you want one, you buy the one that’s for sale. There are only three remaining examples of this, for example.
Leno’s a hoot where his cars are involved. I believe his site is Big Dog’s Garage. Plenty of vids and such.
I used to be into Corvairs, and he has a couple. He said something about his business model being something like “Buy a wreck for $1k, and pour in $50k to end up with something you could resell for $5k.”
Leno has some extremely rare cars that typically can’t can’t be found outside a museum. He’s got the ultimate car guy dream with that garage. Putting together a staff of very talented mechanics and then giving them all these high tech fabrication tools.
I’m a bit envious. But its something he enjoys and he’s got the money to do it. So go for it!
I’m not an expert but I have a bit of knowledge of the restoration game.
“Original” can get very murky. Yes, if you find something that is pristine, properly cared for, is documented and hasn’t been used or hardly touched, that is rare. Time takes its toll on humans and on machines. The original tires on any Model T aren’t going to be any good so they get replaced with replicas. Same with any rubber parts or parts that have corroded. That doesn’t mean that it’s not an original Model T.
Restored cars at car shows typically look nothing like what the car looked like when it came off the assembly line. They have been repainted and/or have been painted in places that never were painted when produced. Yet, basically the car essentially came off the original assembly line and was only enhanced to make it useful, not to be something that it wasn’t intended to be.
The more original, the more untouched, usually the better but that isn’t the only consideration. Leno’s guys can take a rare car, replicate parts as needed and get a rare machine running which adds to the value rather than detracting. Is it “original”? Depends on your definition which is something something that is little more than the basis for an argument.
Lots of factors go into the collector’s value of a car or any antique.
The age old question: This pocket knife has been in the family for 150 years. It’s had the blade replaced four times and the handle was replaced twice. Is it the same knife?
Leno’s collection is so famous that when he passes the value is assured simply due to the halo effect of having been in his collection. Barrett-Jackson will have a freakin’ field day.
However, I expect a plunge for those buyers because they’ll be held to the same standards as the typical collector and the unoriginal stuff will need to be reversed if possible. Stuff like his SWB Jag XKE V12 (a Series 3 XKE cut in half and welded back together to Series 2 length) they’ll just be stuck with.
Collectibles and restoration are all over the map. If the parts are readily available, the car is more modern, etc. - then originality matters much more. Or if you are restoring the car with the stated, documented intention of using original parts, paint mixes, etc.
The celebrity component can matter - but it really depends. A guitar that was used a lot by Hendrix is worth a lot more than one that we know he held, but wasn’t a main player. Billy Gibbons (ZZ Top) and Rick Nielsen (Cheap Trick) both have massive vintage guitar / guitar collections -
High Spot guitars that they also played a lot - like Gibbon’s Pearly Gates sunburst Les Paul that would go for a couple hundred grand anyway - would be over the top price-wise.
High Spot guitars that they owned but weren’t associated with go big, but any bump they get by association would be minor. Rick Nielsen is not known for playing Strats, but has a ton of pricey ones; I doubt they’d get much of a Nielsen bump…
Collectible guitars that have a lot of work on them will typically be priced based on their net collectible value - unless they have a strong association with a celebrity - Clapton’s Blackie was a frankenstein of 3 different Strats; and let’s not forget Eddie Van Halen’s frankenstein which should really sell for about $150 in a junk bin except for the fact that it changed guitar playing as we knew it.
Novelty projects and radical restorations will sell for “curiosity” prices. Gibbons has wacky guitars made from wood that was part of Muddy Waters’ original sharecroppers’ shack. Rick Nielsen has wacky 5-neck guitars, stuff with cool artwork, etc. - similar to Jay Leno heavily modifying a car. Fun, but kills collectible value so you’d have to find folks in an auction crowd who really want that particular novelty item…
I used guitars since that is what I know, but having grown up with antique-dealer parents, this is true with most utilitarian collectibles - e.g., cars, guitars, furniture, computers…
epbrown01, that’s assuming either a) his heirs will want to sell it, or b) Leno hasn’t made plans for his collection in his estate, along the lines of creating a museum.
That’s what I always assumed. You don’t build an amazing collection like that with the goal of seeing it dispersed back into nothing. For all the crap people give him, he’s never seemed to be primarily about the money. He has a huge collection of cars because he loves cars, and the thing I love about his collection is that they are drivers.
I can’t imagine that he hasn’t planned to build one of the finest car museums the world has ever seen.
I agree. He displays his cars at shows in California already. He told a funny story on Top Gear about taking two gangbangers for a ride in his McLaren F1 and finding out they were undercover cops after he got pulled over.
I honestly don’t think he’s got any such plans. In interviews and his column in Octane he’s mentioned that a lot of the time he’s put on to a new purchase by the widow of a collector he knew, and he’s said that likely his wife will put the cars on the market so that other car guys can enjoy driving them, as he does. He’s never been much for museums. Just my gut feeling. I’d say the same for Seinfeld’s Porsche collection.
Ralph Lauren’s collection I can see going into a museum, as he lends the cars out to museums already.
