Well I guess it’s the fact that you bizarrely interpreted this…
…as though I was asking what evidence would change your mind about all accusations of prejudice collectively.
What on earth is your state of mind with regard to accusations of prejudice that you would interpret it that way?
When you specifically quote my position then ask me if anything would change my mind, it is not unreasonable for me to answer the question that you asked.
In your reply you could have said “no, I actually mean is there any evidence that would change your mind on any specific accusation?”
To which I’d reply…yes, of course. It happens all the time. As further convincing evidence becomes clear I change my opinion. Isn’t that what everyone should do?
Yes. You don’t.
It’s like talking to a slightly less stupid version of Magiver.
I just told you that I do it all the time. Everyone does it. You can’t possibly navigate the world otherwise.
And this is rather rich coming the person that, in the very thread you just linked to, continually argued against a position I never held and never accepted it even when being corrected multiple times.
However, for those interested in ploughing through that thread they will find that I clearly apologised for using a potentially confusing example to make a point and said, without any problem, that I should have chosen a better one.
I have to say it is very difficult to recall times on this board where you have changed your mind, or even indicated that you might be considering doing so. Whereas it is very easy to recall times where you have decidedly not changed your mind. Particularly in threads about whether a particular person or statement was racist or misogynist.
I may be wrong, but it’s not the impression that’s built up.
On epidemiological statistics you didn’t “hold a position” that was wrong because you didn’t understand the issue well enough to hold any meaningful position. The point was that you didn’t understand the issue at all, refused to learn anything about what mattered and why, and simply kept withdrawing into “that wasn’t my position”.
Wonderful, you are still refusing to accept you were in the wrong. The irony is strong.
I calculated the statistic that riled you up. I acknowledged from the off that it was an important figure. The whole point of the question that prompted it was to give a fairly (on the face of it) alarming answer.
You, like a broken record, kept telling me that I didn’t understand the significance of it even though I specifically agreed about that significance every time you raised it and patiently explained that I was using that figure to make a very different point.
You didn’t listen then and you aren’t listening now are you?
The thread is there, everyone can go and check if they so wish. If you want to continue this diversion you can post back in that thread.
That is potentially confirmation bias on your part, we all do that to a greater or lesser extent. That’s why I’m such a pain in the arse about addressing what people actually say, not what I thought they said.
The imprint of argument and debate when you defend your position do tend to overshadow the odd occaision when we say “actually I was wrong on that”. I do that regularly in real life, less so here but more or less than average? I have no idea.
Yes, your profound point in a discussion of subtle cognitive fallacies that had got into some quite technical issues with statistics was that “brief headlines can be misleading”. And because nobody every proved you wrong on that controversial issue, everyone should have been listening to you all along, and we are the ones that refused to learn anything.
And did I not admit that using that statistic, at that point in the argument, was confusing and I was wrong to do so?
At least you now have accurately represented the point I was making. That’s progress.
One other thing to mention is that not all changes of mind are visible. I commented in a thread about the value of NFL teams. But before I did so I confess that I was convinced that various EPL and European teams were valued much more highly than the NFL teams. Before stating that I did a bit of research and found out I was wrong.
I didn’t post anything about that, that isn’t interesting, so that change of mind is never seen and that happens all the time. As it should,
The point is that sometimes the correct thing to do is to shut up and listen.
You can’t even do that in a technical conversation about statistics where it’s obvious that the people you are interacting with understand it far better than you.
It’s no surprise that you have no ability to listen or learn in less objectively well-defined matters such as misogyny.
Yup, a slightly less stupid version of Magiver.
Hence all those threads that I read and don’t participate in because I don’t know enough about a subject. I say nothing and I listen and learn. Not very visible that though is it?
And sometimes the right thing to do is admit when you’ve misrepresented another persons views. Which you conspicuously haven’t done.
If there is something in that thread that you think I failed to understand (clue: there isn’t) then quote it and address it there.
I read through all of this mess. You, @Novelty_Bobble, have not convinced me that this idiot had anything but his own ego stroking in mind with his article. “It was just a joke,” didn’t work when I was a kid or when my kids were young and it doesn’t work here. If you say/write something hurtful and try to pass it off as, “Geeze it was just a joke” you are an asshole. He wrote something completely inappropriate and, let me write this slowly… mis…o…gyn…istic. I don’t care whether he is or is not misogynistic personally (though if it walks like a duck etc.), or he was referencing a show I did not watch because, ta da! it was misogynistic, or he made a rather stupid non-apology. The thing he wrote was naked misogyny. If you cannot recognize that you need to brush up on that particular definition.
I don’t know this guy. It is safe to say I don’t think I would be a fan of his if I did know him. He sounds like a complete asshole. I suspect now I’ll be told I just don’t understand his brilliant wit or that I have no sense of humor, or if I do it isn’t sophisticated enough for his high minded commentary. Whatever.
I’m not seeking to convince you.
No-one, least of all me (or him) would suggest it is brilliant wit or sophisticated in any way.
But it is exactly the same sort of comedic routine he has always done. I’m also confident that, according to the behaviour that I’ve seen from him in the past that he does not hate women and I wouldn’t call him a mysoginist.
Your opinion is your own of course.
I actually enjoyed his stuff when I watched Top Gear back in the early 2000s. I didn’t realize he was still an active personality in the UK. Like you said, though, what he wrote was deeply misogynistic. Doesn’t take any squinting to see that.
ETA: I see he does appear to be an equal-opportunity asshole:
There’s some real doozies in there, but wait, it’s a joke, son!
I remember some of those making the news, but I had never seen a full compilation in one place. That certainly puts the sincerity of his “apologies” in perspective.
And that only goes up to 2015 …
If you say plainly misogynistic things, you are a misogynist. This whole idea of “you can’t judge me because you can’t truly see into my heart” is nonsense.
Indeed, it is a particular sickness of modern American evangelical Christianity, but it has spread into many other areas of society and culture.
Intent is impossible to judge on the internet. You can’t really do it the way you can in true interpersonal interactions. Especially not in the printed word, unless a person explains everything fully. So, if you require intent to judge things, you’re not going to ever achieve that on the web. Instead, everyone (you included) have to judge what people actually write and go from that.
My advice? Just stay off the internet completely. Everyone would be happier that way. You seem unequipped for it.