Sure, whatever. Whenever I’ve heard Clarkson speaking outside of his screen persona he sounds just like he does in that apology.
You don’t find it convincing, you’ve made that clear.
So don’t. You aren’t being forced to respond to me.
“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
I was just glancing through the dedicated Pit thread, and came across this gem:
How utterly pathetic.
You really are the personification of the Galileo Gambit.
I’m perfectly comfortable with it.
That is what I do and it has been very rewarding as a career. It is intellectually stimulating, pays well and has taken me round the world.
Not sure what that has to do with Jeremy Clarkson.
I believe that as much as I believe Clarkson’s apology.
See, I made the connection.
You are a fantasist.
Interesting, NB is a professionally-trained troll. Not even admitted, but proud of the fact. That explains a lot.
Well, damn, he’s on my very short ignore list then. What a waste of time,
I appreciate people pointing that out. It’s like finding out the person who keeps calling me to reach out is a robodialer. Just block it, you’re not talking to a real person.
I’m not defending Clarkson, who AIUI has a longstanding reputation for being a bully and a pig, but that’s what he should be apologizing for. He’s a racist, but that’s his right - he’s allowed to hate her. His offense is, as you rightly described it, “the shocking violent misogyny of the way he expressed his hate.”.
Did you notice that you went from “[I change my mind about specific accusations] all the time… that’s what everyone should do” here:
to “It doesn’t happen often and I don’t expect it to” here:
err, I specifially addressed that,
The two quotes you pulled are in relation to two different scenarios. One happens all the time and the other very rarely. They aren’t in conflict.
What you believe is of no interest to me. You brought it up for some reason, it obviously bothers you.
Sure, whatever. The problem for you is that I know the what the truth is and you have absolutely no idea. You might as well be accusing me of being unable to drive or unmarried. It just confirms your ignorance and remains irrelevant to me.
If you want to continue to try making it personal then you can carry on trying by yourself.
No, both quotes are about discussions of accusations of sexism/racism. In teh second quote you characterise those as matters of opinion, principles and belief but if you follow back through our conversation you’ll see that what I was asking you about was your tendency not to consider you were wrong in discussions about accusations of sexism/racism.
No, I think you are not reading those conversations accurately. One is about principles etc. One is about matters of fact in specific circumstances and situations.
But regardless, let me state it clearly in case there is confusion.
I rarely change my mind in matters, here on the board, that are to do with principles, opinions and beliefs. I don’t believe many others do either.
I do change my mind often, both here on the board and in real life, when confronted with additional information on a factual matter.
Hopefully that clears it up.
This is what I’m really not getting here. Because it’s just an objective fact that his apology does not apologize for the hate, or offence caused to the recipient.
He says 3 things:
- That he’s sorry he didn’t clarify it was a game of thrones reference.
- That he’s not a misogynist.
- That he sent an email apology to H&M
Now, being generous, we can say that the mention of an email implies that there was a real and heartfelt apology in existence, just not one he was prepared to write in his column.
But I’d say it’s at least outweighed by the implication that, if he could go back in time, he’d say the same hateful crap but just mention it’s a GoT reference.
You know, I was busy yesterday and didn’t get to respond to your pathetic efforts to refute me, but having spent 20 minutes catching up on the thread’s explosion since you decided to return (see I can admit an error), I don’t see the point.
You’re pulling Octopus level shit right now, making the thread all about you, and it’s sad. You are also ignoring a MOUNTAIN of evidence that has been linked, including @pulykamell’s most excellent summary of the shit Clarkson has pulled, and keep saying we don’t know intent, or don’t get that it’s a joke.
But it isn’t, and if you don’t see that, then you’re being willfully blind. This is not about difference of opinion, this is an ongoing pattern of behavior that EVEN IF IT WAS JOKING is terrible. And, pardon me, but please explain how a punch in the face is a joke?
An internal BBC inquiry found Mr Tymon was subjected to an “unprovoked physical and verbal attack” by Clarkson, who called the producer “lazy” and “Irish” and used a four-letter expletive in the exchange.
This is not onscreen, this is not a character, this is not a joke. This is the real Clarkson, oh, and by way of apologies -
“I would like to say sorry, once again, to Oisin Tymon for the incident and its regrettable aftermath,” Clarkson said.
The presenter was dropped by the BBC following the assault.
Clarkson, 55, added: "I want to reiterate that none of this was in any way his fault.
Note, that this apology, like many others from him, says the words “Sorry” but never, ever take ownership of his actions, the emotions driving them, or any expression that he’s going to change.
Apologies without correction mean nothing, and indeed, are in most cases an effort to get past the incident without the intent to change.
So N_B, if again, assault is a joke, then once again, you are saying a lot about yourself. If you honestly believe saying “sorry” is enough to fix a problem, then I think you speak from a position of extreme privilege just like Clarkson (and no, paying a small fine to settle out-and-out assault is not much better). But this is it, I’m not going to interact with you in this thread anymore.
Where did I mention anything about the punch? where did I say or even imply that it was a joke? I don’t recall even mentioning far less trying to justify it.
Why are you trying to imply that I did? That seems like a purposefully malicious lie. I’ve never mentioned it even once.
Did you want to ask me what I actually think about that incident instead of making shit up?
As well as imagining a view I don’t hold I note that you have very carefully avoided addressing the fact that you misrepresented what I said. Are you comfortable with misquoting people?
I think it is clear that we are interpreting his apology in very different ways, I don’t think we are going to agree. His words may not be exactly what you demand but it reads to me as a sincere expression of regret. Feel free to redraft and submit your own preferred version to him. As a Private Eye reader of nearly 30 years I’m well versed in the weasel words of political non-apologies and this does not read like one of those.
He has a right to do a lot of things, including being an outspoken racist misogynist asshole to everyone in world without apology.
To me, his irrational hatred of a woman for no good reason is no less vile and worthy of apology than the way he expressed his feelings.
I have a pretty good idea, from observing what you post. And from observing your pathetic need to contradict that evidence by telling us what you are.
No, you clearly have no idea and every post from you proves that.
Online interaction and in-person interaction are completely different beasts. You cannot accurately derive one from t’other.