You are saying that the suffering of the body isn’t real, because the soul is the important part. So my comment about the pediatric cancer ward is totally on point.
One thing you’re not factoring in, is that you aren’t correct.
God doesn’t have to be omnipotent and omni-benevolent. Odin was neither. Zeus was neither. The God depicted in the old testament is neither. The so-called problem of evil isn’t an argument against any God, it is simply an argument against an omnipotent and omni-benevolent God.
And my wang could be the very reason that Jessica Alba was given a mouth. But neither is true. It’s just nonsense assertions with no weight whatsoever behind them. You have no evidence, you are not arguing a fact. You are demanding that other people respect your daydreams.
An omnipotent being isn’t limited in ways to teach His children. He could have made them differently.
No, my argument is based on reality. You are asserting a nonsense God with contradictory attributes with no evidence.
He could have, but He made them in His likeness. His children are gods, and have to be taught as gods
Reality, really? Looks like you are defining what a God can and can not be, what type of reality is that anyway. You are the one arguing the nonsense here.
But if you accept the existence of a god then any consequent based on that acceptance could be true.
For example, if a god exists then a human being may be able to resurrect himself… if you accept the hypothetical as true then everything else is fodder for the believers of the first hypothetical.
For my part, yes. Once cell tissue has degraded, and the body has decomposed, then the information in the cells is permanently lost. It cannot be recovered.
You can’t reconstitute a piece of wood from burned coals and ashes: vital bits of information (such as the growth rings) are simply gone forever.
It’d be like resurrecting an ice-sculpture once it has melted. Y’just can’t. The water no longer “remembers” the pretty sculpture. The pattern no longer exists, anywhere.
A “miraculous” spiritual power might (or might not) be able to do it. Who knows? The notion is beyond our ability to explore.
But within any conceivable rules of technology, nu-uh. The body would have rotted beyond any means of repair.
So the other day, some kids were telling my son that he was going to Hell for being Jewish.
And he says, “Well, your guy DIED!”
Other kid: “But he ROSE UP FROM THE DEAD!”
My son: “Oh yeah? Well, I DON’T BELIEVE IN ZOMBIES!”
Let me ask again in another way, using extremely advanced technology that today we might consider sci-fi, there is still no hope of doing a resurrection. For instance no hope of pulling the life force out of the flesh of a person while they are at the point of death, preserving the body in some sort of status field to prevent decay, and no cellular regeneration technology that could allow the body t be repaired in the tomb.
It is flat out impossible for the resurrection, not even in the realms of what we might be able to aspire to one day?
I find it rather strange, that none of Jesus followers( or even his mother) believed he would ressurect. They went to the grave(according to the writers) to anoint his body, and even Mary Magdeline( who was close to him), didn’t recognize him! Then the writers had a story about Thomas who wouldn’t believe he arose from the dead until he put his fingers in the holes in Jesus hands. Jesus at one time comes through a wall (not possible with a human body) then eats so they will believe he is still a human!
It’s been many years since I studied this, but the one thing I recall is that the stories about Jesus before his death describe quite a different person than after.
Before, he wasn’t invisible. He could be identified (by Judas), recognized (by everyone) and had all the aspects of a physical person. He walked, talked, ate and slept. Indeed, that was what some later followers claimed him to be, the physical embodiment of a God.
But after, he wasn’t recognized by all, wasn’t seen by all, no one saw him walk out of the grave, and he ascended into heaven. Much more of a spiritual concept than a flesh & blood, human being.
None of this is surprising if the latter stories are manufactured to match the expectations and predictions. A god-like, incorporeal being wouldn’t have to have a physical body, would it? But it doesn’t suggest eyewitness accounts, either. It suggests a pious redaction.
Only the gullible or the super-religious (same thing) would swallow the whole story without question.
Well, maybe…but maybe not… It’s the whole Star Trek question: “Are you the same guy who went into the Transporter?” If Captain Kirk is the same afterward as before, then someone restored by the same technology could still be “the same.”
(Frankly, I could argue either way on that, and I think most of us, here, could also. Is he the same, isn’t he the same, tra la la. I know a few people who are absolutists on this: “No, he isn’t the same person! The original is DEAD! The replicate has no legal rights!” etc. Too weird…)
For instance, what if the restoration process uses the existing, rotting, decomposed, stinking cadaver, but slowly, one molecule at a time, repairs it, using recorded data as a template. A kind of “piecewise continuity” comes in to play, which is the usual defense against the “loss of sameness” we experience when growing from infants to adults.
It’s all so wonderfully Platonic. If you re-grow my arm, am I not still myself? If you re-grow my entire body, am I not still myself? Where does one draw the line?
You are killed. A time traveler grabs you one microsecond before the bullet impacts, and drops you off at your own funeral. Have you been resurrected? I mean, you’re alive when you were dead before the time traveler intervened; but at the same time there’s your body right over there.
If we took the life of Jesus as reported, perhaps not as it would appear that a ‘soul’ or ‘spirit’ can be placed in another body. His conception was not normal, Jesus being of the heavens was placed inside the womb of Mary by something we would call God. If today we had that capability, would anyone want to try to experience live as a wild animal, by living out that live, then pulled out at the point of that animal’s death?
Also at the cross His words are ‘Father into your hands I commit my spirit’ . If we take the model as proposed, this would seem indicate that it is likely that the spirit can be removed from the body.
We have yet to discover if a soul/spirit actually exists, but it is not ruled out. If it is real then it would not be a clone, but actually the same ‘spirit’.
The OP makes the statement that the resurrection is impossible, I’m just pointing out that it is very possible even without magic.
I think that is it more then likely that there is advanced intelligent life, it makes a lot more sense then we are alone in this universe. I think that our pattern of studying wild animals and also helping them also is instructive as how they might be observing us, with as little contact as possible. Only actually revealing themselves when it is absolutely needed, and to as few as possible without record of their existence to the best of their ability.
OK, Kanickbird assume that the spirit is the same as the body.
(That is what you are saying, right?)
If the body decomposes, does the spirit leave the body?
If the body is recomposed, does the spirit return to the body?