Funny you should mention Kroger… They are a union job in my area (Texas) which is unusual- we are not a big union state..
Anyway, just yesterday, I left comment cards for two employees, Daniel and Louis.
These guys are great employees and both have worked there for the 10 years I have shopped there. Both are mentally challenged. Daniel has Down’s syndrome. I don’t know what Louis’ diagnosis is. Daniel lives in the apartments across the street and Louis lives in the apartments about 2 miles away. I see both of them walking to work frequently. They are hard workers and are the longest lasting employees I am aware of at this store.
I’m thankful that Kroger employs them, happy that they are both able to live independently, and appreciate that they are both such good employees.
Obviously I don’t know these guy’s financial situations, but it appears as though Kroger pay them a living wage. I do not resent that in any way.
I should revise my statement about the part-time employees: there are 409 of them, making 16-17 an hour.
If we are generous enough to fill out the ranks of part time people, so that they all make $16.50 an hour for 2000 hours a year, and combine that with the gross pay of the full timers, the average remuneration is $54,420… $27.21 an hour.
So the state of New Jersey pays $50 million a year in toll workers’ salaries on (I’m guessing) largely profitable toll roads, which is an amount that may or may not be too much to sustain a steady and peaceful workforce. This $50 million figure is coming out of a $30 billion state budget, and cutting this number is supposed to have some meaningful effect on the state’s $10 billion budget shortfall?
Even if they are overpaid, which I’m not convinced they are, is this not the very definition of political grandstanding and scapegoating? I’m not suggesting that they should overpay because they can afford it, but the very fact that toll workers’ salaries are in the news screams of douchebaggery.
You’re complaining that they’re overpaid. If the job overpays, why aren’t you applying for it? I currently get paid almost twice that amount, so I’m not interested in the job. If it paid more than my current employment, I’d be tempted. However, I’m sure there’s a reason why the job pays as much as it does- others have mentioned the tedium, the complete lack of advancement (other than pay), and the risks inherent in the job. If the job pays as much as it does, there’s a reason why they’re not paying less.
You’re guessing? Come on- you’re asserting that they’re being overpaid, but now you’re *guessing *that they’ve never tried to hire employees for what you think is a fair wage? The crappy work conditions, the lack of advancement, the dangerous environment- none of those could possibly contribute to their rate of pay… no, it must be political.
You’ve got it completely backwards: if they have trouble getting employees, then it pays too little. They seem to have settled on this amount of compensation, so I’d say that’s the amount they have to offer to fill the positions available.
And, of course, others have pointed out that $31.58 appears to be the *maximum *wage. What’s the average? What’s the entry pay?
again, this has nothing to do with state budgets vis-a-vis overpaid change makers. The purpose of my thread was not to target state worker x for termination to close a buget gap. No, the purpose of the thread was to highlight a process that has resulted in a public sector, unionzed job which would be paid at 1/3 the rate in the private sector, to express my disdain at the result, and to indirectly state that something about that needs to be fixed.
as for NJ specifically, as was mentioned, the cops are a huge problem for the state.
In New York, at least, it’s a civil service job. You can’t get recommended by anyone. You take a test, and get offered jobs based on what you selected to apply for and how you scored.
Already gave my reasons. Is it your serious contention that if not everyone who makes less than $32, anywhere in the country, applies for the job, then it’s proof that it isn’t overpaid?
Why? Why have you ruled out the possibility that this is an example of government bloat gone wrong?
A whole lot of jobs share those same downsides for much less pay. There probably is a reason they’re not paying less, and it’s because public sector jobs aren’t always subject to market pressures.
I’m guessing, yes, because I haven’t exhaustedly researched the history of this organization. You suggest that they kept trying to hire people at $10, $15, $20, $25 an hour and couldn’t get anyone, so they had to keep bumping up the pay. That seems implausible to me.
My point was that a vastly overpaid job will have a huge pool of applicants. If some county arbitrarily made their dog catcher position pay a million a year, you don’t think it’d be flooded with applicants? You could make the same arguments that the position isn’t overpaid.
Previous poster figured it to be $27 +/-, which, if correct, is still grossly overpaid.
Yes, and if we look at any individual problem out of hundreds, we could say “well, this won’t fix everything itself, so therefore let’s not do it”. What’s this fallacy called? Nirvana fallacy, I think?
well, you can point to most “manufacturing” or resource-extraction jobs in this country that have just-as-crappy work conditions, offer the same job day 1 as in year 30, and are far more dangerous than sitting in an armored booth collecting coins with a neoprene glove, and look at the prevailing wage for those jobs, and then conclude that the political process has driven a large part of the wage differential.
So pay them ten bucks an hour. At that wage they’d make about 20k a year. Then the toll collectors would be eligible for all kinds of state benefits including food stamps and the EITC. Then you could call them welfare queens and feel even better about yourself.
The Republican philosophy as of late seems to be that you’re supposed to be either a fabulous Koch brother (and therefore deserve a place at the table and all you can grab from government) or a Wal Mart peon.
Fuck that. That is not the sort of society most of us want.
how do test for toll collecting aptitude? seriously?
they’re not going to give you GRE or SAT algebra, they’re going to give you basic arithmetic if anything. how do you stratify and qualify two different candidates if they both got all the math problems right?
Fair enough, but so far we’ve found 1 example of a private sector equivalent getting paid 1/3 the amount, and that company has apparently faced constant problems with their own workforce due to low wages. They required a government bailout (in the form of putting private workers on a state health care plan) and still had to deal with unionization and salary negotiations.
If your argument is that the average salary for a toll worker should be $45k instead of $55k, but unions have driven up the price of labor $10k a head, then that’s something I could reasonably agree with, although it’s a relatively minor nuisance and not ZOMG outrage. Saying that unions have tripled the cost of labor seems a bit of a stretch given the evidence.
you are aware that that’s the reality that faces a very, very large portion of people, right? why ought these people be treated any different and get more for substantially the same job?
most of those who weren’t “lucky” enough to get employed by the NJ turnpike commission work 2 jobs, have two-income housholds (and regardless of whatever anyone claims upthread, 40k is sufficient to eke (yes, just barely) out a life in NJ), or dedicate themselves to increasing their skillset to enhance their value.
what about paying them $15 an hour? that would be half their wage (the full timers) and would be sufficient for 1/2 of a 2-wage household.
I never said they shouldn’t fix it. In fact, I said that the state shouldn’t overpay for labor, point blank. But how many of these problems make it to the news? Is this really a serious issue or was this cherry-picked from hundreds or thousands of small issues in order to rile up anti-union fervor?
you can’t find many more examples of private sector equivalents because a) there aren’t that many tolling authorities in the US and b) they’re all government run.
which poses another issue: with the very few private sector equivalents, it’s relatively easy for them to band together and demand (closer) to what their public sector kin are making - there’s no other downward pressure on price in terms of competition. basically, if you have 1 private actor in a field of 100 public actors, who is going to be chasing who for wage consessions/increases?
It was “cherry picked” because I happened upon an article online about it.
The reason there is an article about is is because the state wants to privatize the tollway (which, I detest) and the toll collectors are protesting it since presumably their gravy train is about to stop.
I happened upon the $32 an hour maximum rate, sat there in disbelief, and was bored enough to start a thread about it.
But it’s not a skilled job like pipefitting or plumbing or electrical work, right? They can just hire people away from McDonalds, right? According to you guys there are hundreds of thousands of private sector equivalents in the “unskilled low wage job” category. If the private toll collectors whine about only making $10/hr, just fire them and get a new batch of teenagers and immigrants.
Or maybe it’s a suckier job than it appears at first glance.
it’s not that easy with collective bargaining and other labor laws in pro-union states (which, again, i am not in favor of abolishing in the least - the thing about WI’s Walker was TIC)
also: do you think it’s a skilled job like pipefitting or electrical work? if not, are you aware that pipefitters and electricians make very close to what these people are making?