Jesus, Pork and Buddha

[Inigo_Montoya]

A friend just gave me George Carlin’s book, When will Jesus Bring The Porkchops? I can hardly wait to get reading. But now I’m all curious.

Jews don’t eat pigs. Jesus was a Jew. Did he eat pork? Did he say it was OK? If not, why do Christians eat it? Buddha is said to have died from eating bad pork–on purpose–but that’s not got a lot to do with Jesus or Jews. But I thought that Buddhists were non-carnivorous. Or does that restriction apply only to certain flavors of Buddhism? And back to the Buddha/pork story. There’s also a tale of him feeding himself to a mama tiger so she could feed her babies. Different guy?

I’m so Confused.

[Johnny_L.A]

Jesus porkin’ Buddha?

Wha… huh?

[smiling_bandit]

Did he eat pork? Did he say it was OK? If not, why do Christians eat it?

In order: probably not; I don’t believe so; and because it was a commandment given to the Jews alone, not gentiles.

But I thought that Buddhists were non-carnivorous. Or does that restriction apply only to certain flavors of Buddhism? And back to the Buddha/pork story.

No cite, but Buddhists as a group have no restrictions on meat; there are a few tiny groups which foreswear it, but these actually are more common in western societies where [minor political rant] certain flavors of liberalism misunderstand the nature of Buddhist thought.[/minor political rant] There are certainly Hindu groups which consider it a high honor not to eat meat; some of them encourage people to voluntarily starve themselves to protct other cretures while attaining their form of enlightenment.

There’s also a tale of him feeding himself to a mama tiger so she could feed her babies. Different guy?

I don’t know aout that tale, but remember that there are many Buddha - everyone has the Buddha nature

[smiling_bandit]

Jesus porkin’ Buddha?

Wha… huh?

You are a horrible horrible man who will burn in Hell for all eternity… just as soon as I wipe the milk shot out of my nose off the screen.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Inigo Montoya

Buddha is said to have died from eating bad pork–on purpose–but that’s not got a lot to do with Jesus or Jews.

This monk suggests that it was a mesenteric infarction brought on by his eating too large a meal.

http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/ebdha192.htm

[Inigo_Montoya]

@smiling bandit

everyone has the Buddha nature

can’t resist…
Does a dog have a Buddha nature?
Enlighten me this:

• Gentiles vs. Jews – Which was Jesus?
• Jews that follow Jesus’ teachings
• Jews for Jesus
• What the heck’s a Christian then if not a “flavor” of Jew?

[toadspittle]

Jews don’t eat pigs. Jesus was a Jew. Did he eat pork? Did he say it was OK? If not, why do Christians eat it?

Acts 10:

10:9
On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10:10
And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

10:11
And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

10:12
Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

10:13
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

10:14
But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

10:15
And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

10:16
This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

So, see, God told Peter in a vision that it was OK. Really.

Buddha is said to have died from eating bad pork–on purpose–but that’s not got a lot to do with Jesus or Jews. But I thought that Buddhists were non-carnivorous. Or does that restriction apply only to certain flavors of Buddhism?

I don’t know of the story in question, but there are two things that may be at work here. (1) In Buddhism, Life is Suffering, so it’s considered good in Buddhism to inflict the least suffering on other living creatures, and hence it’s a good idea to eat as far down the chain of being as you can (i.e., better to eat beans, which have little sentience and suffer little than, to eat a cow or pig). (2) Buddhist monks have historically begged for their food, and, since they live on the sheer good will of others, it would be unthinkably rude to not eat whatever is put into your alms bowl. Hence, if someone gave a devout monk some rotten meat, he would be required to eat it.

And back to the Buddha/pork story. There’s also a tale of him feeding himself to a mama tiger so she could feed her babies. Different guy?

Probably. It probably wasn’t Siddharta Gautama, THE Buddha. Lots and lots of other Buddhas out there, though.

[Padeye]

Though it was specifically about Jesus not washing his hands before eating I think Matthew 15:11 applies here.

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

[smiling_bandit]

Does a dog have a Buddha nature?
Enlighten me this:

• Gentiles vs. Jews – Which was Jesus?
• Jews that follow Jesus’ teachings
• Jews for Jesus
• What the heck’s a Christian then if not a “flavor” of Jew?

1. Depends on what Buddhism you follow.

2. Jesus was a jew; gentile refers to non-jes in the ancetral sense.

3. What about them?

4. Ditto?

5. That question reveals that you don’t know much about the subject. Suffice it to say that they have a common root but have significantly different beliefs and practices in the modern era, though there are clear similiarities, and historical ties. It would take book upon books to answer the question.

[Johnny_L.A]

@smiling bandit

You are a horrible horrible man who will burn in Hell for all eternity… just as soon as I wipe the milk shot out of my nose off the screen.

You can only burn for eternity once!

[x-ray_vision]

*Leviticus 11:7 - And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Leviticus 11:26 - The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

Deuteronomy 14:6 - And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.

Deuteronomy 14:8 - And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase. [/i[

I’ve asked many Christians why they eat pork and they tell me it okay now based on Jesus saying this:

*Matthew 15:11 - Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. *

As Padeye mentioned, Jesus was specifically saying its okay to not wash your hands before you eat. It sounds like alot of Christians out there are using a loophole to eat pork, shellfish, etc. Oh, and pay no mind to Jesus; eating with dirty hands can get you sick.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

The cynical view is that the early Christians found it too hard to make converts because of the strictness of the Jewish dietary laws, so they just did away with the Jewish dietary laws.

The cynical view is that the cynical view is always the correct view.

[chukhung]

It is a tradition that in an earlier incarnation (as the prince Mahasattva), the Sakyamuni Buddha sacrified his life to feed a starving tiger. More information is available on this page.

I will note that in Nepal the site of this sacrifice is said to be at Namo Buddha, on the eastern edge of the Kathmandu Valley, near the village of Dhulikhel. Namo Buddha is a popular pilgrimage spot with Tibetan Buddhists as well as Nepali Bhotiyas. If you’re in the area, I can heartily recommend a day trip to see it.

[rfgdxm]

@Exapno Mapcase

The cynical view is that the early Christians found it too hard to make converts because of the strictness of the Jewish dietary laws, so they just did away with the Jewish dietary laws.

Could be. Also, weren’t almost all of the early Christians gentiles? If so, it may be that they just didn’t want themselves to change their diet, so they added in that Christians didn’t need to follow Jewish dietary laws. That this also was beneficial in getting more new converts was just an extra plus.

[EllisDee]

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

This is about washing your hands before eating? It reads to me more like god has taken a firm position on the spit or swallow issue.

[Walloon]

@rfgdxm

Could be. Also, weren’t almost all of the early Christians gentiles?

Depends on how early you mean by “early”. For the first generation of Christianity, almost all Christians were observant, temple-going Jews, although both the Pharisees and the Sadducees rejected them as heretics. The man who detached Christianity from Judaism was St. Paul.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Inigo Montoya

can’t resist…
Does a dog have a Buddha nature?

Mu.

Enlighten me this:

• Gentiles vs. Jews – Which was Jesus?

Jew.

• Jews that follow Jesus’ teachings

That depends on what you mean by “Jesus’ teachings.” If you only mean ethical teachings of Jesus then they would still be Jews. If you mean Pauline Christian doctrine that worships Jesus as a God/Saviour/Messiah figure then they would be Christians by definitition.

• Jews for Jesus

Evangelical Christians.

• What the heck’s a Christian then if not a “flavor” of Jew?
  [/QUOTE]

I suppose that in the beginning you could say that Christianity was a Jewish sectarian movement but the theological differences are significant and central enough that Christians cannot be considered to be any “flavor” of Jew.

[Diceman]

The early gentile Christians asked specifically if they had to get circumcized, and follow all of the Sabbath laws, and do all of the other Jewish things. This was the subject of considerable debate, and the answer, eventually, was “No.” Mainstream Christian beliefs hold that Jewish law does not apply to non-Jews. And Jesus himself never seemed to pay much attention to Sabbath law, which is why the Pharisees wouldn’t accept him as the Messiah.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@rfgdxm

Could be. Also, weren’t almost all of the early Christians gentiles? If so, it may be that they just didn’t want themselves to change their diet, so they added in that Christians didn’t need to follow Jewish dietary laws. That this also was beneficial in getting more new converts was just an extra plus.

Early Christians were far more succesful at evangelizing gentiles than Jews and the elimination of kosher restrictions (as well as circumcision) were indeed concessions to make evangelization easier. It was rationalized by the declaration that the crucifixion had eliminated the “Old Covenant” and that Mosaic law was no longer binding.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Diceman

The early gentile Christians asked specifically if they had to get circumcized, and follow all of the Sabbath laws, and do all of the other Jewish things. This was the subject of considerable debate, and the answer, eventually, was “No.” Mainstream Christian beliefs hold that Jewish law does not apply to non-Jews. And Jesus himself never seemed to pay much attention to Sabbath law, which is why the Pharisees wouldn’t accept him as the Messiah.

It is highly debatable whether Jesus ever claimed to be the Messiah but even if he did, there were far better reasons to reject him as such than whether or not he correctly observed the Sabbath. It’s not even accurate to say that a would-be Messiah is “rejected” so much as that the burden is on them to prove it. Jesus failed to fulfill any of the Jewish expectations of the Messiah so, by definition, he was not the Jewish Messiah. It’s not a question of faith or belief, “accepting” or “rejecting” have nothing to do with it. A guy either fulfills the expectations or he doesn’t. Jesus didn’t.