But but but… Deep State! :smack:
So, the guys that have come forth are operatives of the Hillary/Soros cabal. Targeting the guy who’s just getting warmed up to pry the truth out of that renegade Maoist FBI agent. Exactly how many illegal children has Hillary requisitioned for her sex farm?
OK, that explains them, liberal fanatics.
What about everybody else? If this is total bullshit, and nothing like this happened, then wouldn’t everybody* else* be calling the press, posting on FB, denouncing this horrendous injustice? And we definitely would have heard by now. Maybe just my suspicious nature, but got a nickel says they are already nosing around, looking for him.
Typo Negative, yes, these are adult men. But they’re very young adult men. And most of them are probably on scholarship for their sport. How likely are you to risk losing that scholarship by reporting or physically assaulting university sports staff (even in self-defense, which requires the school to believe your story that you were sexually assaulted) especially in the time period in which this was happening (well before #MeToo)?
I’ll also add that in most sports there is a very strong sense of obedience to authority. Especially for younger athletes. Coach says swim an extra 200 butterfly, you do it. Coach says stay after practice and shoot another thirty free throws, you do it. Team Doctor says here’s how you rehab your knee, and you don’t ask questions… and so if Team Doctor says oh, I’ll be showering with you guys, there may not be the pushback you’d expect.
We are talking about sexual assaults\rapes, not him showering with the athletes.
Sure, some may keep their mouths shut and not do anything. Many, even. You could say ‘most’ would submit to groping in order to not jeopardize their scholarships… but ALL??? (and not all members of the sports teams have scholarships)
In a sample size that was quoted earlier as being 1500 to 2000 men?? No outliers? That the abuser guessed correctly about young men who would submit to abuse and keep their mouth shut *every time? * In group consisting largely of Neanderthals with poor impulse control? (do y’all not remember what wrestlers and football players were like in high school?) All old enough to be soldiers?
That works out to at least 75 sexual assaults\rapes every year. That would have to be one of the most prolific rapists ever.
Listen, if someone produces a document about him being taken to an E.R. with injuries consistent with a beating, that would go a long way. Or a statement that it was not uncommon for him to show up to work with a black eye. Any group that large, men or women,* at least a few *would have fought.
… it’s as if Typo has never heard the names Jerry Sandusky, Larry Nassar, Bill Cosby, or Donald Trump at all. :rolleyes:
Fake news! Derp state! But Hillary! Bengahzi!
How many accusers exactly have come forward exactly? I read one of them served time in prison for fraud and another was sued for frivolous lawsuits and threatening a woman. It’s hard to say till more concrete facts are available but if the guy really abused that many people it seems like there would be plenty of accusers.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/07/05/jim-jordan-accusers/
I have nothing to add except for this irrelevant fact: Jim Jordan lives less than 5 miles from me. I drive by his house all the time when I go to Urbana. He built a couple buildings adjacent to him home for his “Wrestling Camp.”
Wrestling is really really big in these parts.
7 accusers, all of whom say that they reported this to Jordan, not that Jordan was a participant.
But those are just the 7 re: Jordan, the number of accusers against the actual coach is a far larger #.
Sandusky abused children. Nassar abused children and young teens. They both ‘groomed’ their victims first. Bill Cosby drugged his victims into unconsciousness.
Did anyone on that list sexually assault an adult male?
… so, your argument is that there are special qualities in young adult males which make them less susceptible to this than grown women, younger males, and children?
Really?
Up to 9 accusers now.
It’s not a NOVEL attitude toward this kind of thing. It is also, unfortunately, an attitude that helps to keep reporting of sexual assault and rape of adult males from being widely reported.
So do you think the 8 who have come forward are lying? You talk sbout probabilities, but what is the probability all of these men would be willing to risk their reputations and dignity just to concoct a story about Jordan?
Your own posts suggests a sexually abused man who has failed to respond in the macho manner expected of him will be shamed if he speaks out. So you think these 8 guys just what…are so happy to be recipients of such shame that they would volunteer for it? That is more plausible to you then the idea that they were abused?
An alternative gloss is that Typo is alleging they were willing participants, or why didn’t they fight back? Being such big, burly manly-men. I mean, manly men never get sexuallyassaulted. And if they do, they definitely always fight back right away.
You’re really exposing a horrifying level of ignorance with this kind of drivel.
The reason that sexual abuse happens is because the dynamics involve one person - the perpetrator - having power over his/her victims. That’s how sexual assault happens. It’s power, and the absence of power. Sexual abusers manipulate. They exploit. It doesn’t matter their age or their gender or their physical strength.
I’ll give you another example. There have been numerous reports over the years of coaches who have allegedly physically abused their college athletes. Bobby Knight reportedly used to slap and manhandle his players, and I’m guessing some of them were big and strong enough to throw him through a wall. So why didn’t they do it then, tough guy? Because it takes balls to stand up to a guy who has more power than you do and who can stop your career and all you’ve ever worked for dead in its tracks.
And despite what people online tough guys say they would do, in real life, the truth is 95-98% of them probably wouldn’t do shit else.
They are also very, very good at backing off when they start to hit resistance (and regrouping and returning), and gas-lighting victims to the point that they are not sure what even happened. It’s even harder to challenge someone with power over you if they’ve managed to leave just enough plausible deniability that there is even a 1% chance that you are wrong, that you are over-reacting. The humiliation in such a case would be complete: you’d literally have almost everyone turn their back on you. And by the time it’s to the point it’s unambiguous, you can’t say anything, because later events make the pattern obvious, and then people will say “why didn’t you say anything earlier? If it was okay before, why not now?”
Here’s something else.
In a macho environment such as a wrestling locker-room, there are antics such as hazing that go on all the time. Some of the more senior wrestlers themselves might even be in on the ‘joke’, viewing it as a kind of sick, ritualistic gag that everyone has to endure for the sake of fraternal bonding. So then everyone becomes conditioned to the hazing and people become conditioned to believe that it’s just a big joke. Thus, pulling someone’s pants down, grabbing their crotches, and things that to the average, well-adjusted person outside of that environment would see as pretty serious violations of personal space instead become part of the locker room culture and the assumption is that everyone is supposed to just go along with it, because ‘that’s just the way things are done around here.’
I don’t know, but the little Yoda in me says if sexual assault is part of some sort of tradition, maybe it’s time to find a different tradition. Bonfires are tradition. Pep rallies are tradition. Shaving a freshman’s head might even be a tradition. Grabbing someone’s balls? That’s not my idea of a tradition. Find a different one, maybe?
But what the hell: I’ll humor skeptics and submit that such a tradition might be fine as long as everyone understands what’s going on here, consents to it in advance, and accepts it as a joke afterward. But I’m guessing that’s not the case here, hence these allegations coming out now.
So what if not everyone sees lewd behavior as youthful indiscretion? What if people really do feel violated? Are they required to accept it? Is being a part of the wrestling team conditional upon accepting sexual touching and passing it off as a joke? I don’t give a shit if some of the wrestlers have a different interpretation of what happened and defend the program. If even one person got his junk grabbed without asking for it and walked away from the experience feeling violated, then it’s not a joke. It’s actually a pretty serious criminal offense that people can get imprisoned for. And it’s not for other wrestlers to try to explain to victims how they should feel about being victimized, which is one of the most cuntish things someone can do to people who’ve sustained emotional injury.