Everything following the link is a quote from the article.
Jeb Bush: (Responding to reporters’ questions about a newspaper report in which computer experts said the touchscreen machines that will be used in Tampa could be subject to tampering)
http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=6&aid=D85CUH981_story
Shodan suggests that Carter was inadequate and a dolt. I agree that he wasn’t a very good President. But compared to Bush II, he was superb! Carter, a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, wasn’t the yokel you portray. He created millions of jobs, decreased the deficit (when measured in percentage of the GNP), appointed a record number of women and minorities to government positions, stimulated production of oil while protecting over 100 million acres of Alaskan land, created the Department of Education, and bolstered Social Security.
I wish Bush the Lesser had aspired to be half the President that Carter was. Or half the man.
You forgot “stagflation”. What made me mad was seeing working people I knew personally, watching their jobs and savings teeter, and Carter making an offhand comment to the effect of Well, you’ve been living too easy anyway. I don’t remember the exact words. Carter may have a reputation for honesty, he may have been good in getting other countries to talk, but inside our own borders and ealing with what goes on right at home, he was not that wonderful.
Compared to Boss Tweed and his Tammany Hall, Madame Butterfly Ballot is a pitiful amateur 
I used to be a “downstate” New York City Republican. I too, got disgusted and left the fold. I became a good old Democrat. It was during the Reagan years, when they Republicans were suckling off the (not very) Moral Majority, supply side economics, trickle down, and dumping of mental patients started. If they had only stayed in the framework of that Eisenhower speech, I probably would have never switched. What they were beginning to really turn me off, and now really do. I won’t “bore” anyone with quotes from famous dead people about the choice between freedom and the illusion of security.
You do know that’s pure-D bullshit, don’t you? You just threw it in for the hell of it, right?
Convictions result from prosecutions. Which can’t be brought by just anybody – some public official with the proper authority has to do it. Any prosecution for voting irregularities would have had to be initiated either by Florida Attorney General Charlies Crist (Republican), or his subordinates; or by U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft (Republican), or his subordinates. And, unless the blame could plausibly be assigned further down the food chain and only there, they would have had to prosecute Governor Jeb Bush (Republican, president’s brother) and/or Secretary of State Katherine Harris (Republican).
Now, what was the question again?
Near as I can figure, because nobody ever got around to passing a law against it. Also, Katherine Harris never pretended not to be a politician – the office of secretary of state was a partisan elected office, and she was elected to it as a Republican. (Our county supervisors of elections are also elected, most of them on a partisan basis.) As a matter of fact, she was the last elected SOS – when her term expired the office was made an appointed one. Appointed by the governor. Small improvement, IMO. The current SOS is Glenda Hood, appointed by Jeb Bush.
How does this work on other states? Are there any safeguards against the secretary of state (or whoever runs the state election system) also being involved in partisan politics?
So let me get this straight…
No one said anything about Osama in the past quotes, but mentioned that the Taliban was armed by the US (which they were). Also, if you want to talk about the Mujaheddin, where OBL received his training, they were trained and supported by the CIA, if I recall correctly, during Bush I’s tenure as Deputy Director of the CIA…
So I really fail to see what point you are trying to make, other than attempting to Blame the last Guy (or even a couple of guys ago) for what’s wrong now with our country.
What terrifies me is the possibility that all these horrible things–eligible voters turned away at the polls, election supervisors deciding on a whim whether or not to count overvotes–are going on in other places, and we are just focused on Florida because of the 2000 controversity.
“BrainGlutton Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moto
He [Jimmy Carter] certified the election in Venezuela after only a cursory check, despite evidence of massive voter fraud bu Chavez forces all over the country.
You do know that’s pure-D bullshit, don’t you? You just threw it in for the hell of it, right?”
On 5 September, two Ivy League academics, Ricardo Hausmann and Roberto Rigobón, issued a report claiming that statistical evidence shows a 99% probability of voter fraud Link
If you read the linked articles the two professors set out to prove the allegations of fraud false & found out there was a 99% chance they were true. Doen’t make Mr Carter seem like an impartial observer does it.
It was alleged that if Carter had been re-elected, 9/11 would not have happened (perhaps). 9/11 was planned and carried out by Osama bin Laden, who is a Saudi national and whose major beef with the US is that American soldiers were stationed in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War. So, to argue that 9/11 would not have happened if Carter were re-elected, you need to establish that although the Soviets had no compunctions about invading Afghanistan during the Carter term of office, Saddam would have been reluctant to invade Kuwait six years after Carter left office. Although he showed no signs of reluctance to invade Iran during the Carter presidency either.
The Taliban were not armed by the US, since they didn’t exist when the Afghanis were fighting the Soviet invasion of their country (which happened during the Carter presidency).
Regards,
Shodan
There was a time when this thread would have been interesting to the non-us reader.
It would have helped us understand how different areas of your country carried out elections and the problems involved.
It would have had people of varied political persuasions giving their views on the OP.
Now unfortunately that seems to be over. With the exception of a few posters this has been a waste of time due to the absolute blindness of people on different sides of the political divide. It’s sad what has happened to this site when it comes to politics. I can only guess what it’s like IRL when political debates happen.
Hey, did anyone hear that most of the key requirements of the 2002 Help America Vote act haven’t been enacted? wow, after the debacle that was the 2000 election I would have thought that all americans would be only interested in maintaining the purposes of a democratic election and ensuring that theproblems that happened in 2000 wouldn’t happen in 2004.
Apologies for the hijack, but this has just got to be addressed; I am so tired of people blaming Carter for all the sins of the Middle East because of the Hostages in Iran and the failed rescue mission and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan… and I am so tired of people being able to shoot the messenger because the message isn’t very palatable! But dammit, at least get the facts of the issues right!
OBL used US troops on Saudi soil as an excuse for 9/11. OK, fine.
The Russians invading Afghanistan had little if anything to do with Carter, and even less to do with why OBL hates us, and certainly nothing to do with Saddam invading Kuwait in '91. The strategic reason for the Soviet invasion of AFghanistan I have never fully understood, but the fact remains the CIA funded, trained, and supported Mujaheddin fighters in Afghanistan, and this is where OBL received much of his training. What exactly could Carter have done to stop any of this, as he was only in office for the Soviet invasion itself and very little of the following activities?
Saddam invaded Iran basically cause we wanted him to; Iran was getting far too arsey for our comfort levels, so we gave Saddam tons of money and a blank check to make war on his neighbor without worry of sanction; we also wanted to show Iran a bit of a lesson for making us look like such wankers at Desert One. Your premise that we tried to ‘stop’ Saddam is pretty disingenous.
As for Saddam invading Kuwait in 1991, many believe that it was a misunderstanding when Saddam thought we said ‘go for it’ when in fact we were saying ‘don’t do that or we’re gonna spank you.’ And wasn’t it Bush Sr who was in office and should have stopped the invasion of Kuwait? Again, I don’t see how we can blame Carter for that in any way, unless you think he can be blamed simply for his association with the Democratic Party.
Of course, if you really want to point fingers of blame, why not look to who did the following:
1: Supporting the non-democratically elected Shah, who violently repressed his people, and which led to the violent uprisings which led to his downfall and to the rise of the fundamentalist Ayatollahs and a generic hatred of America being force-fed to the population of Iran.
2: Supporting the CIA funding of Saddam Hussein, including technology to give him chemical and biological weapons, as long as he used them against the Iranians in their 8-year war, all of which he did.
3: Supporting the warlords of Afghanistan to fight the Soviets with arms, money, and training, and when the Soviets finally left the region, dropping them like a hot rock and allowing for the chaos which brought the Taliban to power
BTW - here’s the answers to the above list:
1 = Nixon and Ford
2 = Reagan and Bush Sr (and Don Rumsfeld, of course - we all saw the photo)
3 = Reagan and Bush Sr
Now, back to the original topic - is there a way to guarantee fair elections in Florida, and is Carter’s claim that this is impossible backed up or not?
The whole point, dear boy, is that they were not ineligible to vote. A good number of the people who were denied the right to vote were either not felons at all or felons whose voting rights had been legally restored.
So anyway, Jimmy Carter says that basic requirements for a fair election are missing in Florida.
Regardless of the politics in the middle east in the latter half of the last century,
IS HE CORRECT???
Cmon guys - if the US is going to invade counties for the sole reason of alowing democracy to flourish, is it not polite to at least APPEAR to be holding a democratic election yourselves?
Sin
Cannot answer if the basic requirements Carter speaks of are in place or not, but Florida has had at least one major election since 2000. The Governor & 25 House seats were contested in 2002. I would think this should have shed some light on any lingering problems. Anyone from Florida like to weigh in on how that election went?
Well it seems there are still some problems
From http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=566688
That story also talks about small elections that have happened and have been fucked up.
With apologies to Floridians who are currently struggling, and since this thread has suffered hijacks already, I just had to dig up this old cartoon. As aggravated as everyone has been lately, perhaps we could use a laugh?
On topic, I thought one of the problems was that Florida has a lot of convicted felons whose voting rights had been suspended, and is one of only 13 states to enact such laws. People can apply to have their rights restored, but the appeal is heard by a 3-person panel which includes the Governor, and they only take 50 cases/year. Ironically, had Jeb’s daughter been convicted of the felonious acts for which she could have been charged (instead of being sent to a “treatment” program), her voting rights would have been suspended.
I don’t have cites for these, so I’m reluctant to bring them up, but I’ve heard many stories of voter intimidation on the part of Republicans in Florida.
An interesting fact about the Florida voters being banned from voting was the fact that according to Florida state law, felons are barred from voting for life. Fine, so be it.
But many of those who were banned were:
- Not felons in Florida, but felons in another state (many were from Texas, I recall reading) therefore not subject to Florida’s law banning those who were convicted of felonies in Florida from voting
- Not felons at all, but people with names similar to felons
This is why it’s scary. I don’t have a problem with barring felons from voting, but I do have a problem with not putting enough process in place to ensure that the right people are barred from voting!
Despite what I think of Carter as a president, and despite my remarks about Boss Tweed, Carter is CORRECT. It has been in the news: NY Times, LA Times, LA Daily News, etc. I noticed too, that according to one post (which I haven’t verified) “the list” not only has convicted felons but suspected felons? As in not convicted / not gone to trial / maybe not even charged?