Agreed.
I am an American citizen living abroad but am job hunting back in the States.
The good news is that Taleo allows me to enter my address including selecting a foreign country. The bad news is that many companies have Taleo set up so poorly that I MUST select a US state as a part of my address.
I have only gotten one phone interview with a company that uses Taleo. The hiring manager did question the error in my address. :rolleyes:
If you want to work for the Feds you had to give them your GPA…on a 4 point scale. I went to a college that had a 3 point scale. I called the personnel officer and asked if they wanted me to convert it. They said put the actual scale down. I pointed out that a 3.0 on a 3 point scale didn’t mean the same thing as a 3.0 on a 4 point scale. But that’s what they wanted. Then I pointed out that some schools in order to beat the system, use a 5 point scale.
Anyway, I happened to glance at the online applications for an agency a couple of months ago, and it now says to list your school’s GPA scale. So, presumably, I wasn’t the only one who complained.
Ugh. It’s buggy, too. I hate it.
I once got a job with a company that used it by going through an internal contact. No idea if they would have even talked to me if I’d applied normally.
They weren’t really in sufficiently similar professions to make the comparison, unfortunately. Both were white collar professional careers though.
It does fit with my general observation about careers, which is that people who expect to be treated fairly and well generally get their way and people who wouldn’t dream of being demanding usually don’t get ahead.
I can understand if one is barely scraping by and would assess themselves as doing good but easily replaceable work. I have no reason to suspect that’s not realistic. Most of my friends don’t fall into that category though - we almost all think we’re doing great work and are very valuable to our employers. Still, I often get perplexed or annoyed reactions if a friend asks for advice about a work situation and I suggest they put their foot down and insist it’s unacceptable.
Some people say “You can’t just tell your boss what to do… that’s naive!” But plenty of people, like me, occasionally do just that and in my experience we seem a lot more satisfied with our careers.
I’m not a zealot about it by any means but I suspect those obnoxious job application forms are just starting off with the wrong foot.
Three related observations:
A lot of these internet listed positions aren’t actually available. I got my last position when the person in the position left unexpectedly and a connection in the company knew I’d be a good fit and recommended me. The company, after a few phone calls, flew me across the country for an on site interview. At the end of the day, they made a job offer and I accepted, but told me they had to first post the position on the company site and I had to apply officially through the site. The hiring manager said “Your application will come to me and I’ll just ignore the rest, but we have to list it first.”
Some job descriptions are tailored to match a candidate that there’s already interest in and can include weird sets of required qualifications and experience they figure very few people can match. I applied to one position in research that had a page and a half of desired experience and qualifications–but it looked like it was cut and pasted from my CV. It was local and I found a connection to forward my CV to the actual person who I’d be working for and I followed up with an email directly. Nothing. Not even an acknowledgement of my email. Maybe something else was going on, but I’m pretty sure they already had someone and probably were surprised there was another matching applicant.
Some companies, like a particular one I’ve been interested in, hire a vast majority of people through current employee referrals (see above). I’ve heard numbers like 85% of this company’s research positions are filled this way, although there’s a huge pool of outside people for these positions who may not know anyone inside.
I’ve had experience in this on both sides of the situation.
I recently applied, interviewed for, and got a new job in the same institution (different department) that I’m currently working in. I was alerted to the opening when I asked someone in the new department, which I’ve worked extensively with in the time I’ve been here, to be a reference in my job search. (I probably would have seen it posted internally but hadn’t gone looking yet.) While talking this week with someone in the new department, he told me that it seems like any hiring coming in from the outside through our HR department seems to take forever. I agreed, as it took 6 months from resignation of a previous coworker to finally getting a replacement! Mind you, probably 4-6 weeks of that was spent pursuing another candidate before going with the second choice, but still, that’s a crazy-long time for a position that isn’t rocket science (though it is indeed science).
On the other side of things, I occasionally get people coming into my office to ask about job openings/drop off a resume. I work in a tiny research office - if you’re supposed to be there, 99% of the time we’re expecting you. However, we get a large amount of random foot traffic from people who suck at reading signs on the walls/hanging from the ceiling and need me to be a human version of those or the floor’s directory (posted directly across from the elevator doors. Thus if you randomly show up, I’m probably already annoyed. If you shove a resume (especially one that has nothing to do with what we do) in my face after I open the door for you, I’m more annoyed. I’ll also know that you’ve been practically wallpapering the entire building with your resume if you found your way up to my office.
However, I did have a pleasant woman show up who was working in our volunteering office and said she was looking for a paid position; she outlined her oh-so-on-point background and asked if we had any opportunities or knew of anyone who did. I told her nothing in this office but that I’d ask our doctors, took her resume, did ask, forwarded it to another office where she was interviewed and hired.
(I also anti-networked, in that I told my manager to not interview a particular candidate if she applied, and exactly why she would be a terrible choice.)
One of the things I want to see is a company that uses exam based hiring practices. E.g. if you wanted to apply, you would show up and take a test and/or submit your scores from standardized tests (e.g. SAT, ACT, GRE, GMAT, Iowa Test of Basic Skills, Podunk County Standardized Floor-Sweeper Aptitude Test, etc.). Decisions would be made primarily based on getting a high enough score (how high is good enough would be based on context). Interviews, reference checks, etc. would be mostly pro forma and used to weed out people who are obviously unsuitable such as people who clearly don’t get along with others or are active serial rapists, or possibly to make a decision between two very close candidates. But for reasonable applicants, the real battle would be the test as long as you fit some bare minimum set of barebones qualifications.
One thing that this sort of process might do is make it a lot easier to get a job you are overqualified for. Tired of (or laid off from) your job as the CEO of a Fortune 500 company? Take the test for the Floor Manager position at the Decatur office and blow it away with your m4d 1337 m4n4g3r14l 5kI11z.
What about the ones that ask for your SSN on an unsecured website??
Another annoying thing are the job search sites that make it look like you’re starting the application process through them, only to realize that the first page of info you entered was strictly for *their * benefit, and NOW you’re going to be re-directed to the company’s website where you can “finish the application process.”
I really wish people paid attention when they ask for someone’s evaluation of a third person. I’ve known cases where someone was hired after a recommendation or de-recommendation (either in general or for the specific position) and somehow the people who hired them are always surprised when their evaluation ends up matching the one received. “The new person [needs his boss to ask about his projects every day/has hit the ground running/is an ok programmer but a lousy analyst/is very detail-oriented]!” “Yeeeees… and you’re telling me because?” “It’s what you said!” “Yeeeeees… aaaand, again, are you telling me or informing me?”
I had no luck at any of that. In the end, I applied to local small businesses that weren’t computerized so I was able to talk face-to-face with live human beings. Apparently, I have mastered the art of the interview, my biggest obstacles was getting to that point.
In that situation you sell whatever possessions you can sell, pick up scrap from the roadside for the meager proceeds, and apply for foodstamps.
Unfortunately, I speak from experience on that one.
^ The hiring process to work for the Census was this.
Unfortunately, it was a temp job that only comes around every 10 years.
BTW - another reason for the obviously unqualified applying for jobs is the requirement to look for work in order to keep receiving benefits like food stamps. I don’t care for applying for jobs I’m not qualified for, but if I’ve already blanketed the local open jobs for what I am qualified to do, I’m still unemployed, and the choice is either submitting an application for something I am wildly unqualified for or having my only means of keeping food on the table cut off I am going to be filling out the damn forms. Sorry, but I have to eat.
I know this annoys the crap out of HR but really, some of us are doing it in order to eat, not to annoy you or because we’re stupid or don’t read the job description. Rules that require people to apply for positions they’re unqualified for only make the resume slush pile deeper. Because the Great Recession resulted in millions of middle-class, college educated professionals being dumped into unemployment yes, you can get lawyers applying for entry-level retail sales positions.
Here’s my new complaint for the day…
Recruiters, please do some due diligence with a company before you send me out; HR managers, please don’t drag my ass downtown for a three hour interview only to tell me at the end that there really is no job, you’re just trying to decide if you need to create a new position or if you can give your current workforce added responsibility and you though it might be good to get input from people in the field.
Honestly, you know what? Fuck you. I find it unethical for you to use potential candidates to gather market research by dangling the prospect of non-existent job in front of them.
Is wishing death on these fuckers still against the rules? Bah, it’s worth it…
I hope you assholes dies a slow and painful death and everyone you love turns their back on you in your final hours.
My pet peeve is application sites that have elaborate password requirements. I don’t want to mess with stuff like “Make a 7 digit password including 4 capital letters, a special character (not including “@” or “!”), a three distinct numbers higher than 4”.
Networks are the only way to get jobs, in my experience. If a manager hears of someone with the right skills and a good reputation, why would they bother to look any further? Job fairs can be a good way to start building networks- follow up with the recruiter after applying for a position.
What helped me in my job searches was tracking everything. I set up spreadsheets showing each job, tracking the dates of every point of contact, etc. I found I had a 10% app to interview rate and a 50% first interview to second interview rate. The a average time to get an interview invite was 2 weeks. Knowing this helped me keep morale up and feel less like I was throwing things into the void.
I’ve been more or less in the market since 2004, and I think I’ve only had one or two interviews. A couple of years ago I added an MA to my credentials, and it still hasn’t helped.
Last summer I met with the alumni advisor at my graduate school, and I wish I hadn’t waited until the end of the meeting to explain that I can’t really rely on networks, because people don’t like me very much. I don’t have many friends. I’ve wondered for years if there’s something that most people perceive and act upon when they’re conversing with others, and I just lack that part of my brain.
Classmates, my therapist, and others have said (since childhood, actually) that I’m brilliant, and that I can do anything, and yet I can’t seem to do anything. The shame and embarrassment are dreadful. I finally have a day job that pays a living wage, and I’m scared that I’m going to lose it next month, partially due to difficulty interacting with the place’s volunteers.
Right now I’m occasionally publishing articles, so as to improve my resume/cachet, and it seems to be working inasmuch as I sometimes get re-published and cited. Nobody has contacted me yet, impressed or otherwise, but maybe when I apply for jobs in the future I might at least get an interview. I’m also exploring psychiatric help, in case I’m just too sick to have any hope.
I’m not trying to one-up (one-under?) anybody else’s experience here. It just seemed appropriate to add it.
“Really? Interesting. My consulting rate is $300 an hour. I’ll send you a bill.”
It couldn’t hurt.
Forgive me for resurrecting this thread, but I had a new, related experience today. I sent in an application last night on a whim/off-chance position. It had a pretty elaborate, but poorly-edited online form, which I filled out by rote, cutting and pasting from other documents, including details of my references.
I woke up to somewhat cranky emails from 2 out of 4 of my references, who had been automatically emailed a link to their online reference form! In what universe is a reference check done at the START of the recruitment process, before a human even has a chance to review the application?
Anyone else seen this?
Also, been relatively impressed with indeed.com for job searches. Any other similar sites?
Eta: Nevermind zombie 