And yet so few seem to do it. Or, they do it and don’t mind if a prospective employee fudges upward. I don’t know. Other’s MMV.
EDIT: what I should say is that deep background checks aren’t all that common, based on my experience. Depends a lot on the field you’re in, type of work, need for various clearances, etc. I’m thinking that these kinds of background checks cost money, and smaller employers aren’t going to find them worth the cost (perhaps they’re cheaper/more accessible in the Internet age?). No data on my part … just general impressions.
EDIT pt 2: I didn’t know W-2s and such were public information. Assuming the use of IRS records is off the table … what data is being used to confirm salary? Or are IRS records, in fact, public? And with no FOIA hoops to jump through?
I actually had a prospective employer inquire about my salary (which was far below market average). They found out how much I made and in turn reduced the amount they initally offered for the job to only 15k more than what I was currently making. This amount was still well below the average for my career. I was ticked that they did this and respectfully declined the offer. Oh… and did I mention that this company was Skadden ARPS… The second largest law firm on the planet! They were being cheap as hell!
To make a long story short (too late) less than 30 minutes after turning down the offer from Skadden the employer that I work for now called to schedule an interview with me. They eventually offered 24k more than what Skadden offered to begin with.
And, to make things even more absurd Skadden called a week later to ask if I was sure about turning them down. BWAHH HA HA HA! Sure am!
In the end if they try to low ball you leave 'em because they probably have a less than desireable work environment. Someone will eventually pay you what you’re worth in the long run because they’ll need you and your skill set.
Oh… and did I mention that Skadden ARPS was cheap as hell?
Companies that are that insistent on confirming your current either (a) have no idea how much to pay for that position in the market & are too cheap to investigate it and/or (b) are looking to pay you the least amount possible. Either way, do you really want to work for them?
Salary info doesn’t belong on a resume, IMHO (which seems to be the direction this thread is headed ). If a company is so hot for salary info that you can’t get into the door without it … that should be a huge red flag to a prospective employee. I’d worry lots about getting the DustyButt treatment (see above).
But if your prospective company called me and asked for salary information, I would refuse to give it. The only things I can give are start date, end date, and job title.
Some companies do in fact ask new hires to bring in a W-2 or old paycheck. These records are not public information, but there’s nothing that prevents an employer from asking for it. It does tick people off. But some employers in some markets find it worth the hassle. Presumably they have a lot of qualified applicants, and a lot of folks who tend to lie.
No they are not normally available. And background checks to find out what you earned are not “easy”. The standard Background Search companies have no special way of determining your wages. I work with Lexis/Nexis and although they have a lot of personal information on any gieb person, there is virtually nothing on income. Now, a business will have D&B figures often.
msmith537 Cite? 'cuase I work for the Government and my friend works for a bank and neither of us can easily find out what anyone makes.
I’ll amiably second that request for a cite. I used to work in the private investigation business. I had access to numerous online databases, including ones where we could get a person’s full SSN, but I never ran across a direct and/or simple method for obtaining someone’s salary info.
I have definitely done what you describe Debaser and it certainly works especially if you change jobs often. I even have a technique that always gives you an honest out if you need it.
Here is how it works:
Take your base salary + your bonus. Give them that as your salary to start negotiations.
Tell them that you need a 3% - 10% raise on top of that for leaving your old job.
The bonus structure should just fall in place naturally at the new company and you will just get it again.
In steps 1 and 2 above, you asked for 2 raises. One was direct and one was hidden by inflating the salary more in line with prior compensation. That is easy as pie to back out of if you ever need to (be you shouldn’t need to). The bonus structure should obviously be accounted for on their end as well but hopefully that won’t be a problem.
Can’t answer for msmith537, but I note adam yax’s contribution in post #7 above:
What the heck is The Work Number? And I notice that it says “many large companies” … probably less than 5% of the U.S. workforce.
…
In the hopes this won’t come off as wanton mudslinging: I have participated in several threads like this on various boards. Inevitably, someone who’s a self-identified HR professional or business owner will come in and strongly admonish everyone in the thread to never ever lie about salary info to a prospective employer (please note that no one in this thread has quite done this as yet … no one is specifically being called out here). These folks often also note that past salary info is easy to confirm, anyway, so don’t you try it <wags finger>. On boards less moderated than this one, this person is usually shouted down and forced into a corner … where it’s revealed that no, they really can’t find salary info very easily at all, but everyone is a jerk for not playing fair and reporting their salaries accurately, harumph!
Funny, I was the one who started the same thread about two weeks ago. I am happy to report that I got the job and my fudging on salary did not appear to have been checked or to have made a bit of difference.
My reason for fudging was a bit different. It is hard to explain, but I made a combination of salary and commission at my old job. Due to circumstances partially beyond my control and partiall by choice I made somewhat less in 2006 than I did in 2005. I knew that would be a warning sign to potential employers. In any commission based environment you are expected to trend upwards. So I kept my 2005 salary the same when asked and fudged my '06 upwards. The salary I was offered was considerably higher than either year in the end so it worked out well.
My company has very, very strict rules regarding giving out salary info. In fact, the only thing that our HR can say about a former employee is the start date, the end date, and the last official position held. This is only after faxing a form or two, particularly one that disclaims liability for any information given, and that the accuracy of such information cannot be verified. An HR department can get its company sued for slander or libel, as well as give the company a bad rep in the recruiting world. Besides, the company gains no advantage by disclosing salaries, unless it thinks that there is some weird conspiracy to keep the people down.
Turns out we can’t get salary info all that easily. I thought we could.
You people act like it’s so outlandish that a company would want to see if your salary range is in line with what they are paying. If I have a posiion that pays $45000 and you are asking for $100,000, it’s not like I’m too cheap to pay you the $100k. It’s more likely that you are too senior for that role. I have to assume you are either desperate and just taking the job as a temporary gig until you find another $100k job or that you would get bored in the junior position and leave.
And the opposite holds true too. If it’s a $100,000 position and you’re making $40,000, I don’t see you as a “great deal”. More likely you are too junior for that position.
And you are right. The Employer needs to know *something *about your salary needs. Maybe not the exact number but a range at least. OTOH, same goes for the potential Employee.
I’ve done some more research. It turns out that my current employer does use “The Work Number” to verify employment.
According to the web site, The Work Number, which is owned by TALX corporation, which is owned by Equifax processes the employment verification for half of the fortune 500. I’ve heard of them before, but haven’t ever used them until now.
I set up an account and checked on myself. It turns out that for all companies they work with they will give out the following info:
Name
SSN
Hire Date
Term Date
Length of employement
Current status (Active/Inactive)
Job Title
They will give this to anyone paying $16 or so. If you wish to, you can generate a PIN to give to a potential employer. With the PIN they will give salary info:
Salary
Schedule of pay (Weekly, monthly, etc)
Total YTD pay
Pay for last two years
So, I would at least definitely know if any employer is trying to peek at my salary info, because they would need me to generate a PIN and send it to them. Interesting.
This is basically the plan I’m going to be working with.
To make things easier, my current employer even has a page on the intranet where they will compute your total compensation. This includes things like health care and the employer payroll taxes in calculating how much you are actually being compensated rather than just income.
So, does this mean that one can lie directly on those credit card applications? That’s where I am suspecting that they are getting this info. At least now my friends who are habitual users of free credit promos can feel justified for massively lying on their applications.
Lying on a Loan application can be a crime, even a Federal offense in some cases. Depends on why and how big the lie is. One of our legal eagles will come by and post some cite, I am sure.
I’d be carefull about this strategy. The company can always come back and point out that they’re giving you a lot of those same benifits. You’d probably be better by pointing out that you had seniority at the last company, and therefor were already fully vested, or earned X number of days off as a 5 year employee or something.
). If a company is so hot for salary info that you can’t get into the door without it … that should be a huge red flag to a prospective employee. I’d worry lots about getting the DustyButt treatment (see above).