That sick leave policy sounds seriously fucked up to me.
As for the whole concern about sounding too much like a “What’s in this for me?” type of person, i was under the impression that most decent employers expect that their prospective employees will want to know “What’s in this for me?” before they take the job. Employers generally make quite clear what they expect from their prospective employees, and it’s perfectly reasonable to expect the interviewee to ask questions that reveal what he or she can expect from the employer.
AMEN - this was one of the items on my list I skipped in my OP. My current job doesn’t recognize sick-time either - you have to burn vacation days.
Their excuse is “we used to have sick time but people abused it”. So they were too fucking lazy to police/punish the abusers, they decided to punish everyone.
This would definitely be another deal breaker for me.
But combining sick days with vacation days—the policy you describe—is not the same thing as putting a black mark on the record of people who take sick days, which was Tamex’s complaint.
Quite a lot of companies nowdays combine sick leave and vacation leave. I’m not quite sure how i feel about it. One the one hand, as someone who virtually never gets sick, i personally would probably benefit from such a policy through having more vacation days. On the other, i have considerable sympathy for the poor bastard who is legitimately ill and has to use up all of his or her vacation just to get better.
Yes. I’ve heard of companies who combine vacation and sick leave, and while that would suck, it would be so much better than what I’ve got going now.
How do you find out during the interview if a company has a completely messed-up policy like the one mine has, on sick leave or anything else? I mean, it almost sounds confrontational to bring it up, and if you mention that “well, my old company blah blah blah…” I always feel I’m walking a tightrope to not sound like I’m bitching too much about my current employer, because I could bitch. A lot.
I mean, are there other employers who have such a policy, or is this one so completely out in left field that other companies would be shocked that you would imply that they would be like that?
I did not find out about the “attendance policy” until I had already completed the training for the job. I could have quit at that point, I suppose, but I really needed a job, and, here, I had a job. (And, I’m sure I thought, at the time, “Well, I’m not sick that often, anyway.” Well, I’m not…unless I’m confined to a room with sick people who still come to work because they can’t afford to lose a day’s pay or who have already missed too many days and don’t want to be disciplined for missing more. I’m about in that boat right now, too…currently on my record is three days out with a bad cold/sore throat/fever in September and three days with the flu in January. We can only miss up to seven days in the past twelve month period.)
sheesh, just ask! make a list of questions and at the appropriate time ask what is the vacation policy, sick leave policy, med benefits, etc
probably shouldn’t ask this in the first interview with the line manager. or phrase it ‘i have some questions about hr policies, should i save those for hr or can you give me a brief overview/can i ask you?’
again depends on type of position you are applying for. appropriateness also very much depends on your wording. you’re not demanding ‘what’s in it for me’ – you are trying to confirm your belief that t is company is a great fit for both you and the company. you’re experienced and know the type of work environment where you thrive.
Seems to me that you’ve answered your own question. If you strongly feel that you don’t want to work in an environment that does not suit your stated requirements, then by all means, bring up all your questions at the interview. In fact, as soon as you get an unsatisfactory answer, you can even just stand up and walk out. After all, you said you clearly wouldn’t want to work there, right? “Never” means never, right? It would really do the whole hiring process a lot of good if both sides can just be honest with each other. But we all know how likely that will happen.
I can see your point about these things. I have left jobs because of this sort of thing: a sick day policy that results in “come to work sick”, inconsistant application of company policy regarding behavior (Doctors were allowed to verbally abuse staff in front of patients), homework requirements unrelated to my actual job, and being assigned janitorial or patient feeding jobs that are not what I am trained for . It is hard to formulate questions like "If I take this job will I be required to adopt a patient’s bedroom and clean it twice a shift, despite having many other pressing responsibilities and no access to the janitorial equipment? "
Oh yeah, the sick policy should be a deal-breaker. I once came to work with a flu that was mild on me, but resulted in my entire department squirting at both ends within 48 hours. They kind of eased off the sick leave thing after that.
Not to sidetrack the conversation, but I absolutely hate a doctor who does this. My dentist, who is always very courteous to me, is rude to his staff. I should say ex-dentist. I stopped seeing him because I did not like how he treats his staff.
I think that it is entirely appropriate that you ask these questions. When I am interviewing potential candidates for positions, I don’t wait for them to ask. I assume it is something that they will want to know. So I have my standard spiel…15 vacation days per year, 13 SDO (additional vacation days that can be taken at a time of your choosing)year, 15 sick days per year, benefits that include pension, group life insurance, AD&D, medical coverage including prescriptions, dental and vision, etc. etc.
OP here - I guess I had a sheltered career in that after 20 years of working, this company is the first one I worked for that had no official sick days.
I get 4 wks vacation with no sick time.
My previous company gave 5 weeks (after 5 years) plus technically unlimited sick time. I say technically because abuse was “policed”, and rightly so.
The guy who was always sick on a Monday or a Friday when it was gorgeous out was suspect. They would ask for doctor’s notes after 3 consecutive sick days.
All reasonable. But it involved (dare I say it) actual work on the employers part.
My current company threw in the towel and decided to punish all.
The reason it didn’t break the deal then was that until hiring I was a fairly healthy guy. But we had just had a baby and now he was a toddler going to daycare - bringing home all sorts of colds/viruses and I kept getting slammed.
The stupid part (as other may have mentioned) is that you wind up coming to work to save your vacation and then infect your colleagues.
Good thread - I’ve been asking myself these same questions, but unfortunately I can’t find any answers. Especially about using the web, which to me is very important. I’m in software development, and if I’m waiting for code to compile, I tend to browse a sports website or something in the meantime, as there’s nothing I can get done until the compilation is finished. As someone said, while on the interview ask for a tour of the offices, and try to get a glimpse of as many monitors as possible. I don’t know what else you can do besides that…
The other question that I’ve wanted to ask in the past, but couldn’t, is what kind of hours employees work. There’s just no way to phrase that without coming off as lazy. Someone once suggested getting to the prospective company’s car park early one morning to see what time employees arrive, and also getting there late one afternoon, to see what time people leave. Not the ideal way to tell, but I can’t think of anything better…
Just - As for work hours, I think saying something like, “How long is your average workweek?” isn’t a bad thing. If they say, “Well, the two employees whose jobs you will be assuming worked 50 hours a week, but they were slacking off. We’re sure that you can accomplish both in 40 hours.”, I’d be leery. I’ve mentioned in niterviews that I don’t mind working overtime for month end or as a push to get a big project done, but I normally prefer to be home at a reasonable hour. If they don’t like that attitude, it’s probably not the company for me.
Some good advice here, especially about being observant and networking to learn about the environment. My belief is always that the time to ask about things that would be dealbreakers for you is after they’ve made an offer. Sell yourself up until that point. Hopefully some of your questions will have answered themselves. Then ask the remaining ones tactfully before you decide to accept.
Sorry to bump this thread, but I now find myself in exactly this situation. I’ve so far taken Harriet the Spry’s advice - meaning I’ve waited for the offer before asking things that would be dealbreakers.
So now that I have the offer, I’m planning on emailing the guy that interviewed me (and would presumably be my manager), and ask him a few things. You wouldn’t think that the questions I want answered are that difficult to ask, come to think of it - for example, I’d like to know if parking for me would be provided, and whether or not the company minds flexible hours. That doesn’t sound so unreasonable to ask, does it? I also want to ask how a potential bonus works - they’ve said I could be paid a bonus, but haven’t told me how it’s earned. You’d think that would’ve been covered by now, wouldn’t you?
So I’m about to fire off an email - unless the Straight Dope tells me not to.
If they haven’t said anything about flexible hours, I would leave that out. Reason? Because if a prospective new hire asked that of me, I would assume that this means they will have a problem meeting the established schedules.
Sure, in some jobs it almost seems a no brainerthat the hours would be flexible. Look at my schedule, it doesn’t really exist. But having that question asked of me (imagining myself in a job with a regular schedule) would raise red flags to me about the asker’s intent and ability to be on time and stay at work.
So, depending on the type of job it is, if it hasn’t been brought up by them, I would leave that out. The bonus question should have been covered already, so definitely ask about that. Parking is also a legitimate concern, imho.
All companies allow managers to override some company policies - like flextime or working from home. It simply isn’t appropriate in all situations and there has to be management discretion. They actually aren’t “overriding” the policy, the policy will say something like “Acme allows employees to work from home one day a week, at their management’s discretion.”
The phrase used for most of this at the places I’ve been is “work-life balance.” “How does your firm address work-life balance issues?” Let them answer. Then you can bring up some specific things that concern you. “My family uses my cell phone to get a hold of me, will that be a problem?” “I like to personalize my workspace, is that OK here.” (I wouldn’t admit to wanting to check sports scores on ESPN.)
Ask if managers are evaluated by their employees. I know a company where you may get part of your bonus if you don’t spend your budget, but you won’t get another part if your employees don’t rate you well. Other companies have polling firms come in every few years and survey employees in such a way they can match results to manager. My current company takes these surveys rather seriously.
Message boards are a great source of information, but remember they are often packed with the complainers. You can also request that you are able to talk to some peers during the second interview - they may be more upfront and approchable about “they didn’t spend the training budget last year.”
If you must know about flextime, I think asking very specific questions sounds better: i.e., “My wife drops our daughter off at daycare in the morning, but I would like to be able to pick her up by 3:30 most days. If I come in at 7, will leaving early be a problem? I will be able to stay later if needed to attend meetings or what have you.” or “My mother is in a nursing home and is really only alert in the in the middle of the day. If once a week I extend my lunch an hour and then make up the time in the afternoon, would that be acceptable?”
To me, those sound like someone trying to balence their life, and come across as more reponsible than “So, um, is there flextime?” Of course, if you don’t have a good reason for wanting flex time, this won’t work.
Another way to discuss the flex-time issue is in terms of productivity for the employer. Example: I find that I work best in the morning, and that arriving early permits me to accomplish a great deal while the workplace is quiet. Would it be acceptable for me to arrive at 7 a.m. and leave at 3:30, for example?"
Since you are taking my original advice I thought I’d offer a few more tips. Now I would recommend focusing in on what issues you think might be dealbreakers for you and/or negotiable. For example, parking. What is your sense about the company? Are they a large employer that is likely to have a blanket policy for everyone, or is it a smaller company where a savvy negotiator might get paid parking as a perk? Is parking in any way a dealbreaker for you? If you think they have a blanket policy and if it is not a dealbreaker, hold off on asking about parking.
Regarding flextime, you might want to ask 3 questions - what are the regular hours? what are provisions for vacation & holidays? and then is there any flexibility for appointments or alternate work schedules? Asking about flexibility for a specific situation and/ or the productivity angle seem like good approaches. If they really are 12 hour a day, on call, eat all meals at the office type of people, and you are not, really ought to get that out of the way up front. Just don’t come across like you are seeking as much flextime as possible (especially if it takes you away from internal or external customers) and you should be fine. If you are currently employed and have flextime with your current employer, that could be a good angle. “One of the things I currently enjoy about my position at XYZ Corp. is the flexibility to have my regular schedule by 7-4 instead of 8-5. Would I be able to do that here at Acme?”
I thought I’d offer a few more tips. Now I would recommend focusing in on what issues you think might be dealbreakers for you and/or negotiable. For example, parking. What is your sense about the company? Are they a large employer that is likely to have a blanket policy for everyone, or is it a smaller company where a savvy negotiator might get paid parking as a perk? Is parking in any way a dealbreaker for you? If you think they have a blanket policy and if it is not a dealbreaker, hold off on asking about parking.