But that’s the thing, Sherrard; Joe Biden is deep sixing himself. I’m sorry but I agree with CarnalK: there’s no way people are going to ignore his senior moments in front of a mic forever. People begin to notice these things.
Right, but the race just started. That time isn’t now.
Trump walks to re-election if they fail to unite behind a leader and if they fail to inspire people to vote. We can handle a fiercely competitive primary. I don’t disagree that it shouldn’t by no-holds-barred – the candidates shouldn’t say things that make the entire democratic party look bad, which is why I’m a little squeamish about identity politics. But if Joe Biden confuses Margaret Thatcher with Teresa May and gives confusing responses to debate question or ducks questions, how is that an attack on Biden? That’s Biden attacking himself.
Yeah? Why isnt Sanders too old? Where are the republican posters saying trump is too old? :dubious:
And Joes little gaffes? he’s been making them all his life. They arent "senior moments."n
Then you might like thisvideo. Saagar criticizes Warren and Krystal Ball criticizes Biden.
Saagar and Ball are both on a show called Rising from The Hill. At minute 1, Saagar says that Warren’s response to CharlamagneThaGod’s question on a Breakfast Club video about her heritage left her blank. I didn’t see what he saw, but you can decide that based on the video. I watched the entire Breakfast Club video and thought Warren did pretty well.
Although Saagar calls Warren “economically brilliant”, he says that her “woke” base leads her to take actions that she shouldn’t.
Krystal’s criticisms of Biden are the same one as on this thread. They’re using the same article, which is from The Hill. Biden’s doing a fraction of the events as other candidates but already needs more downtime.
Full disclosure: Krystal Ball is a big Andrew Yang fan (although Saagar not so much), which might invalidate the op-ed for you, but the video of Warren’s reaction is still there for you to interpret.
FTR, yes, Sanders is absolutely too old. But he runs younger than Joe, so that’s why he looks better in debates.
If not Joe then whom? I’m seeing this thread repeatedly rise to the top of the forum with posters telling us what a disaster he is. Where’s Warren’s thread with the convincing argument that she’s the one? Or Inslee’s? Or Harris’s? Or Beto’s?
I mean this place is a microcosm of the greater campaign. If Dems are gonna spend all their time and energy telling us how bad Biden (or whomever the frontrunner is) is, rather than selling us on their (or their candidate’s) platform or electability, just brace yourself for 4 more years.
Quit shitting on Democrats and tell us who is the one to beat Trump. We need to fight like hell, but if we spend months fighting like hell against someone rather than for someone, then this just all falls into Trump’s lap with a big fucking bow.
Biden will beat trump, no doubt. Maybe not the best President we could put up, but he is the one sure to beat trump.
With two dozen candidates cluttering up the landscape, I didn’t see the point in having threads for each candidate. Who needs that many separate threads about the race for the 2020 nomination?
And of course the main argument being made for Biden here is that he’s a tad more ‘electable’ than anyone else. So - shock and surprise! - people are pointing out why he’s probably not particularly electable. And how even if he wins, he’ll let Mitch McConnell handcuff him the way he handcuffed Obama for most of his Presidency.
Now that the race is narrowing to just a few candidates that people are paying attention to, maybe it’s time for threads about each of the candidates that are drawing nontrivial support. Let’s see: we’re in a Biden thread, here’s a thread about Warren and Sanders, here’s one about Sanders, here’s one about Harris, and here’s one about Mayor Pete.
Looks like we’ve got it covered.
No kidding, sparky. I know those exist. My point is, no one’s posting in those. Try convincing us [your candidate here] has what it takes to beat Trump, and maybe take a pause from telling us what a shitbird Biden is. We get it. You think he’s terrible. So who’s good?
I think Warren is good. Harris is good. It’s certainly fair to question whether or not they could beat Trump in the general election, but I don’t think many people are arguing otherwise.
People aren’t trashing Biden so much as pointing out that he’s not necessarily as “electable” as people say he is. Moreover, let’s face it: we all remember what happened a few years ago when the Democratic party coronated the front-runner. To be clear, I’m not saying Hillary Clinton didn’t win or didn’t deserve to win or that she won a “rigged” nomination, but there’s no disputing that the party itself, as well as many of us who voted for her, assumed that her nomination was a foregone conclusion from the start, and we assumed further that she would easily defeat Trump. We know how both of those assumptions played out, so you’ll have to pardon people for being a wee bit skeptical of accepting at face value Biden’s supposed political strength.
There are very real problems with Joe Biden. It’s a very telling, and troubling, sign when his own campaign decides they’re better off limiting his exposure at a time when candidates typically seek to maximize their exposure and strengthen their brand. If Biden can confront the concerns that people have and win the nomination, I think you’ll see the party unite around him, and he’ll undoubtedly bring in independent voters and maybe even some Republicans who are disgusted with Trump. But he’s not going to do that by hiding from the cameras and looking weak. There’s just too much exposure in a campaign to think that this is going to be an effective strategy.
In terms of being able to beat Trump? Many of the candidates. Jay Inslee could beat Trump if he could win the nomination. I really think ‘electability’ comes down more to which candidates have a problem, not which candidate has that special sauce.
Since it looks like a Biden v. Warren contest for the nomination might be starting to shape up, I think Warren would do just fine. What’s Trump going to do, call her ‘Pocahontas’ some more?
I think that unlike Biden, Warren’s quite aware that Mitch McConnell will be a brick wall in the way of pretty much anything the Dems try to do in 2021, so assuming they can win the Senate next fall, they’ve got to kill the filibuster next. Having the party nominee saying this will move the ball forward because both reporters and activists will be asking Dem Senators where they stand on the filibuster.
Also unlike Biden, Warren is clearly aware that we’re facing a climate emergency, and we need to move big and fast to address it.
She’s on the right side of a whole bunch of issues, and has concrete plans to address them. She’s a candidate who can tie where she is on the issues to stories from her life that working people, especially working women, can relate to. If she wins the nomination, she’ll be a good nominee and a good President.
Going to see Mayor Pete this afternoon. Second time in a month or two. Bernie’s in town, Harris, too.
Being in one of the early states. It’s a thing.
Biden’s performances so far have ranged from a D to a few hints of solid B. His gaffe predilection is baked in to his numbers but yeah he needs to show he’s got the skillz to dismantle Trump, not just have it claimed because of how he polls without really campaigning. He’s not sleepy or senile and those claims are embarrassing to the ones who make them, but he is the same affable clumsy mouthed candidate who has lost the nom before.
I for one would feel better supporting him if he demonstrated some better speaking skills.
Warren has a good case to make that she is electable too. She manages to straddle being enough of a change it all up message to attract those who just want change (Obama-Trump voters included), while still leaving establishment types with a feeling that she isn’t nuts and just going to destroy things. She hasn’t shown that she can inspire Black turnout but that is offset maybe by marginal increases in younger voter turnout.
She needs to be tested some more but she has a good case to make.
I suspect there are quite a few like me supporting Biden but tentatively. We won’t be won over by beating up Biden. We are winnable by completing the sale of another choice on her strengths.
Yes, and it will work. He and his base will have a blast making fun of her and he’ll campaign his ass off all over the midwest and the “Rust Belt” and the crowds will roar with laughter and applause, energizing Republicans. He’ll do the exact same thing in the debates and she will be thrown off her “serious woman talking about serious business” game, be rattled by Trump’s juvenile attacks and unable to parry it with any humor, and come off looking like Hillary 2.0. Black voters in the main are going to be unenthused about a woman who looks and speaks like someone’s mom in 1997 at a PTA meeting warning the parents about the dangers of Marilyn Manson and Eminem, and their turnout will be lackluster. And anyone who thinks that Warren can connect with blue collar workers has never been a blue collar worker. We’ll have 4 more “Tremendous”, “Yuge” years.
Trump has plenty of subject matter to humiliate him with if he dares to do that. I’d love to see Buttigieg on the ticket one way or another because he hits him hard on “the pron star presidency” rather than try and take the high ground. He probably won’t come close to the nomination but as VP pick…I’d pay to watch Buttigieg debate Pence.
That would be amazing. Buttigieg has at least 20 IQ points on Pence, I’d guess, and then there’s the famous Pence un-ease around the topic of sexual orientation. Pence would try to be condescending and fail, and Buttigieg would be kind but firm. And probably witty, too.
The ratings might top ratings for the presidential debates!
Thanks for posting that; some great insights from Pierce.
Interesting prediction. Doesn’t seem to have much connection with the actual Elizabeth Warren, though. Seems like more of an eccentric fantasy. (Probably a fantasy cherished by several Trump fans.)
Yes, the re-branding effort isn’t very convincing, given the fact that we have access to the historical record.
But those who enjoy the trashing, will go on a-trashing. And it will have an effect. Certainly Bernie’s attempt to brand Hillary as corrupt, with all his emphasis on her “Wall Street speeches,” was quite successful in the 2016 election. People looked at the fact that the trashing was coming from the non-Republican side, and that gave it added weight.
It’s no fantasy of mine, believe me, it’s a deeply troubling scenario. I rate Biden’s chances as being better than Warren’s, but still low. My favorites are Buttigieg and Booker. In fact, I think they would make a stellar ticket - with Booker at the top spot. I know that’s unfortunately unlikely to happen though.
I agree the piece by Pierce is very insightful. I have been an admirer of Warren since she first ran for Senate. I believe she would make a great President.
The problem is the GOP and Trump will lie about her and cheat in every way they can to stop her. The oligarchs despise her. Jamie Dimon and his amoral cronies will pull out all the stops to keep her from being elected. Thanks to Moscow Mitch the Russians already have free rein to run wild in 2020 and if Warren is the nominee they will destroy her in ways that will make what was done in 2016 look like child’s play.
The saddest thing will be how the supposed liberal media will do next to nothing to call out the liars and their lies. Repeating all the lies and feeding the controversy will be too important to drive ratings and at the end of the day that is ALL they really care about. In a general election Warren won’t be allowed to get her positive message out because her campaign will constantly be on the defensive and never allowed to influence the news cycle in the ways they must in order to win.