Joe Lieberman, running mate

I’m not particularly anti-Semitic despite my father’s earnest efforts to the contrary (Dad was a Nazi apologist, if you can believe that), but consider the following: If Gore wins, it’ll be veeeerrry interesting to see how the Moslem world (at least the Mideast/SW Asia part of it) views the US’ relationship with Israel, whom they already regard as a de facto 51st American state. You may recall late '98 or early '99, when SecState Madeleine Albright, SecDef William Cohen, and NatSecAdv Samuel Berger were on campus at Ohio State to talk to the student body (who jeered them) about why it was necessary to bombard the Serbs in order to get them to leave Kosovo alone. Consider how, to international Moslem eyes, the prospect of three highly placed Jews explaining US interventionism must have appeared. In a lot of places outside the US, it’s noted how the Israeli tail wags the American dog, and the US is seen as at the behest of the Jewish-American pro-Israeli lobby. This is likely to be exacerbated if we have a Jewish VP. I can’t wait to see who Gore would pick as SecState.

So what you’re saying is, a vote for Gore is a vote for World War III, as the Moslem world explodes in protest against a Jewish American vice-president? Do you have some kind of secret pipeline into the “Moslem world”, never mind that the components thereof hardly even speak to each other, let alone explode in protest together? Never mind that the average American vice-president has about as much political authority as the average piece of wet paper towel, a fact of which I’m sure the not-so-stupid “Moslem world” is perfectly well aware.

And I don’t recall that Albright, Cohen, and Berger were wearing yellow Stars of David on their coats, or “kick me–I’m Jewish” posters taped to their backs. How would the “Moslem world” have even known they were Jewish, and, again, why would they have cared?

You ever heard the saying, “Politics makes strange bedfellows”?

P.S. For somebody who’s “not particularly anti-Semitic”, you sure sound kinda anti-Semitic. I’m not particularly “anti-SUV”, but have you ever noticed how the tail of the SUV wags the Detroit dog?

And I sincerely hope that, if elected, Gore allows Madeline Albright to re-up as Secretary of State. Egad! A woman in high office! What do you suppose those camel-driving ragheads would make of THAT?

Another vote for Madgirl Maddy! She kicks ass.

Albright and Cohen seem to negotiate well with our Arab brothers and sisters. They don’t seem to care about our people’s religion. Why should you?

DDG, “camel-driving ragheads?” I trust you were joking, but it was still in bad taste.

Man, am I glad that I don’t follow politics. All the guys could tell me at work is that Gore chose ‘some Jew.’ Interesting.

DOes that mean if we don’t vote for him, it makes us anti-Semitic?

I’m not following you here. Three high-level American officials of Jewish extraction were arguing for U.S. military intervention…against an avowedly “Christian nation” on behalf of an oppressed Muslim minority. Obviously the notorious International Jewish-Islamic World Conspiracy at work…

Umm, no…it means if you make stupid comments like the above that you’re probably an anti-semite. You and your work-buddies sound wonderfully accepting of a religion that is not of your own being involved in politics…that’s Anti-semitism. (“I’m not an anti-semite, I have Jewish friends”)

I certainly hope that Liebermann makes it to the big white house, then he can just give all the Anti-semites more proof that the “ZOG” exists:rolleyes:.


It has come to my attention that the above post might be taken the wrong way, and offend. I will clarify.

The OP in this thread has definite undertones of anti-semitism, IMO. Brood McEto posted about him and his workbuddies in conversation, and I quipped back regarding the content of it(Gore chose ‘Some Jew’), and that attitude tends to get on my nerves a touch. Now that there Is a Jew in the running for Office, we will have to deal with the above sentiments quite a bit more often.

Brood, no, you are not necessarily an anti-semite because of your conversations at work. If you have even the faintest inkling of an idea that you wouldn’t like a Jew as a VP, specifically because he is a Jew, then you’re most likely an anti-semite to a certain extent.

My only point was that if you have to get defensive about not voting for Gore/Lieberman, and feel you must justify it, then you probably have at least a touch of anti-semitic sentiments.

So, Brood, I apologize, my post was made out of emotion to the OP, and you were unfairly targeted. Accusations of Racism/Bogotry/Anti-semitism, Etc. should not be thrown around so lightly.


Back to the OP: The Muslims hate Christians as much as they hate Jews. They just hate Israelis more, and being Jewish doesn’t have anything to do with it. It’s a land usage issue, not an anti-semetic issue. Perhaps a little study of the History of the last Centrury in the Middle East is in order.

Lieberman adds a LOT to Gore’s campaign, he’s got a good track record, he’s more conservative than Gore is, which will add some more moderation to the ticket, and, like Gore, he’s a deeply religious man. Adds some more morality to the Democratic party. His political history got him added to the ticket, not his religion. It would be nice if people could TALK about his political history instead of being stuck in the “oooh, he’s Jewish! What a bold move!” Give me a break.

This development was discussed on Australian radio this afternoon (Aussie time), and the general consensus was that it was a cynical exercise in vote catching.

By playing the “Jewish” card, the theory suggested that the Democrats had played a trump card to counter Bush’s high profile religious stance.

The issue of how the Moslem nations would react didn’t even enter the discussion.

I think you already answered your question. The Moslem world regards Israel and the USA as one in the same. So they won’t see a difference. Think about it. Are Gore or Bush suggesting we cut military aid to Israel? It’s not an issue. US/Israel relations will be the same after the election. It dosen’t matter who wins.

Palenstian (sp) man thinks to himself, " Would I rather be bombed by Israel with a Democrat or a Republican in the White House."

[reeling with astonishment that, given the overall sarcastic tone of the post, anyone would consider “camel-driving ragheads” to have been serious]

**I hereby tender a public apology to camel drivers everywhere. No insult was intended.

Ditto to people who wear rags on their heads.

Ditto to people who wear rags on their heads while driving camels.**

DDG said:

I figured I knew you well enough to know you were probably joking, taking a unfortunately common attitude to an extreme for the sake of humor. However, and there’s ALWAYS a “however” when I’m in Stern Daddy Mode, I was hoping you’d realize that it was not intuitively obvious to the casual observer that you were joking.

Whenever I am about to say something offensively humorous I try to remember to plug in words that would offend me. “Camel-driving ragheads” is on the same level as “nigger” or “kike.” Try plugging one or the other into your sentence and see how you would react.

Of course, when it comes to Canadians I just can’t resist. That’s why they invented the winky ( :wink: ), to let folks know not to take me seriously.

DDG, perhaps you should remind yourself that Moslems and Arabs tend not to understand when someone is joking, or not being serious. Just ask Salman Rushdie…

Gore chose a running mate. Yay. I’m a Gore fan, I think he needs a running mate, and he chose a qualified one. I’m happy.

Now, for the record, I’m not Jewish, though my dad was raised jewish (he is non-practicing). I was raised catholic and am an atheist.

My question is, why do we care about Lieberman’s religion? He clearly has the political resume to do the job. Isn’t that what’s important? Personally, if (s)he’s qualified, I’ll take a Pink Unicorner, a Wican, or a Ra-worshiper.

Why is the religion of our political leaders an issue in a country where “separation of church and state” is a household phrase?


  1. It is valid to ask questions about a politicians religion. Religion, by definition, is going to provide the underpinnings of the politicians actions and opinions. For example it is completely valid to question the effect of strict observance of the sabbath (and I am completely satisfied Lieberman’s response to that question).

  2. In the case of Jews, I think the American people have long since decided that it is a non-issue. There are at least three Jews on Clinton’s cabinet. Several on the Supreme Court, and (I think) ten in the senate - much more than their 2% of the general population.

  3. Lieberman was a conservative Democrat. However, since being picked he has recanted on several of his positions (school vouchers, privatizing social security) to be more in line with Gore. This isn’t surprising, I would expect any vice presidential candidate to do so; but I don’t think that the Dems will be able to trot out the “moderate” Lieberman on the campaign trail.

  4. Do you notice how the Dems are telling us that “the American people are ready to have a Jew in the executive” while simultaneously telling us that “picking Lieberman was a brave move by Gore”? If the people are ready for it, how was it a brave move?

5)Remember back when W. mentioned Jesus as a role model and the pundits jumped all over him for dragging religion into politics? How is it that nobody seemed bothered that Lieberman mentioned God something like 15 times in two minutes during his acceptance speech? (As an atheist I am bothered anytime politicians focus on the role of God in their administration)

  1. If I had to choose between Lieberman and Cheney I would choose Lieberman in a heartbeat. But let’s remember folks, vice presidents play almost no role in the final results. Quayle was universally considered a boob and it hardly mattered in 1988. The only choice that matters is Gore or Bush, and that one isn’t nearly so easy for me to decide.

Americans United (for Separation of Church and State) Statement on the Role of Religion and Politics in the Presidential Campaign

I think American Atheists has also mentioned it (along with discussing Lieberman’s stances on vouchers and censorship issues).

GaWd: I’m not mad. I’m sad. I’m in Waco. That tends to make me sad.