Damn it must be tough to live within your means on that paltry amount. Especially compared to some poor sod who only makes a tenth of it. I mean, he doesn’t have the need to upgrade his car every year, or have more than one (or one at all) and keep all the best gadgets.
If you’ve got financial problems on 250k then the problem is you. Not so much on 25k
Exactamundo compadre.
The whole attitude of “the rich can afford higher taxes, take the money from them” is really disgusting. People who make over $250k are not here for the rest of Americans to take money from. That group is not some piggy bank that the rest of the country can draw from.
You are absolutely free to share your wealth until you share your way to the poor house if you want to. Your feelings on sharing your own wealth do not justify the government taking an extra portion of wealth from me for the stated purpose of giving it to others.
Do you disagree with having a greater police presence in the ghetto than in peaceful towns also? I mean wouldn’t want those poor people sucking up more of your money right? If they just scaled back Government services to put them in line with what people pay in taxes, then it would be more fair to you wouldn’t it?
Personally how I’d do it is just say that you don’t pay taxes below 50,000 a year. No one pays on the first 50k. Then any money above $ 50k is taxed. That way no one can complain about graduated taxes, everyone is getting equal treatment.
Exactly, and the key word in what you said was time. You donate your time. that is more valuable that any check and isn’t deductible either. Anyone can write check to the local homeless shelter and feel like a good little citizen. Join me serving up meals or boxing up food at the local food pantry and then tell me that I am not doing enough. Usually those folks who tell me that I don’t pay enough taxes don’t donate a thing, time or money.
Government services are one thing…
But giving those who earn that money, and pay no taxes, a “refund” is something totally different.
I don’t think there is anyone who pays no taxes. To spend money is to pay taxes.
Sales taxes are a totally different thing than U.S. federal income taxes. No one is talking about sales taxes.
Sorry, I guess since we have contributed an entire page to income taxes, I just assumed that it didn’t need to be spelled out.
Well, I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think that there’s a reason why a safety net is available for those that need it and I’m honored when the government feels like that’s something we should be mandated into helping share the responsibility for. Because as I’ve said, they make us do so much anyway, much of which I feel is reprehensible (like funding a bogus war), that I have no problem seeing why it’s necessary to pick up the slack when it’s not done so voluntarily.
There is a reason why volunteerism is so low. There’s also a reason why many in the US are so wealthy while many others can’t escape the circumstances that they were even born into. I believe if many more people felt this way (for example, I’m at waitress-level again now – so that’s 2.13 an hour – and I’d be okay with my taxes going up more than 3%), we’d all be better off for it. But the real problem as I see it (using my family as one of my data points) isn’t that most folks care about fairness. It’s that some are afraid that someone will get something they didn’t.
I appreciate your reasoned and polite response. I certainly agree that we can all do more on an individual basis, but unfortunately there are circumstances that in hindsight many come to feel the government was right to intercede for our overall best interests. Say like wearing seatbelts, certain basic educations or innoculations. Sure there are some on the fringes that disagree with this, but generally speaking, it seems that after the hue and cry these things were indeed for the best. And I can’t imagine the outrage if all of a sudden those sorts of things were changed or taken from us. By the same token, that’s how I see this. If those who can will help others, everyone will benefit. Some by not being poverty striken, others by being part of a system that advocates doing the right thing. Association in this case would be a positive thing. 
In my humble opinion.
Thanks, my biggest problem is that I do not feel that the government should be the vessel in which to provide people their sustenance in order to eek out a meager life. At the same time, I know that there are more people out there, including people involved in this very thread who don’t donate anything yet expect me to roll over and take any tax increases that come down the pike simply because I make “too much” money in their eyes. Since they don’t do their part, we all get to kick in that much more.
Everyone has their own sob story so I wont bore you with mine. Suffice it to say, I’ve made money and I’ve lost it all. Throughout it all however, I looked after my family, my employees and my community the best way that I could. To have people on a nameless and faceless joint like this tell me that I’m not doing enough, or to have that asshole Biden tell me to suck it up and be a patriot and get in the game, or for posters here to have the gall to presume that they know my politics or beliefs simply because I don’t like the idea of paying more taxes to an already out of control federal system is simply insulting.
Change and hope indeed… :rolleyes: Country first my ass… :rolleyes:
But then JXJohns, you’ve got to have (and apparently do) your moral center that allows you to take others’ opinions like that with the proverbial grain of salt. If someone assumes they know you from one statement, there’s no reason to consider that anyway. Similarly, for Biden to make this like a “Take one for the team!” rah-rah speech, is equally useless. The point, in my estimation, means we can all do more to step up and make the world a better place then how we got it. Fortunately, some can do that simply be a small tax increase. Unfortunately, that’s all they’d do either way. Ultimately though, someone (I don’t know, crack babies? the mentally ill? Vietnam vets who aren’t getting enough from their pensions?) will not do as poorly because of it. I hope for the trade offs like that, it’s enough.
Your reasoned responses have given me something to think about.
Thanks
(Biden is still a tool though.) 
Thank you.
And we have another happy ending in GD. Which means I’m off to bed and refuse to think about any vice president nominee’s tool-ness before sleep. It’ll give me nightmares. 
JXJohns, I may not agree with you, but you put things eloquently, and you debate in good faith. Hats off to you sir!
I think if everyone was like you, we would live in a very nice world indeed, and in all likelihood EVERYONE would all be paying a much lower rate of taxes.
The problem arises when you have folks like Rand Rover, whose motto seems to be: I’ve got mine, and I wants me some more, I’m not going to give a damn nickel to charity or spend a second of my time helping the stinking poor."
When you have people like this (and I think they exist in relatively large numbers), then someone needs to wrest a few coins from their grasp in order to do the good work that you automatically do because you’re a decent human being.
I"m not putting this well, but I hope you get my drift.
You caught that word “gross” right? How many people do you employ? How many kids eat dinner every night because you make sure that their mom or dad got paid that week? How many times have you dipped into your own savings to cover payroll because a vendor was late paying the bill? Obviously, you have no idea of what you are talking about. Until you walk a mile in my shoes, don’t assume anything. It makes you look stupid and petty.
Thanks. It’s posts like the one I replied to in #56 that really get under my skin. Until someone really understands what it is like to live on a 2-3% margin annually and are then forced to pay even more taxes, they just won’t get it. There is room for polite debate here, it’s too bad that a few smart-ass know-it-all party hacks have no tolerance for dissenting opinions.
In the end. I’ll end up paying more taxes. Who will really suffer? I’ll raise my rates across the board. My customers will stick it to their customers and in the end, the very people who complain about the “rich” not paying enough will end up paying the difference. Meanwhile, that extra cash that is going to O’Biden from my increased taxes will be cash that wont go to the local groups I work with already. Certainly a bureaucrat in DC can find better ways to spend my money to help my community than me, the guy who lives there. Right?
Take it easy.
My husband is part-owner of a business that employs 25 people (three times more than two years ago) and is worth several million dollars. We’re voting for Obama, even though it may not be the best thing for us fiscally. We care about the entire country, not just our own wallets. We’ll be fine.
Quite. Democracy is not about voting for what is best in the short term for yourself. It is voting for what is best for society as a whole. Or should be.
I respect that attitude.
IMO, a good share of the “wealthy” are in that position to large part because they benefit to a greater extent from government programs than the poor. Cash payments to the impoverished may well pale when compared to the societal infrastructure supporting a wealthy person’s business and lifestyle.
I’m nowhere near $250k per annum, but I consider myself very fortunate that I make a good enough salary to pay as much as I do in taxes. And sitting in my comfortable suburban home, enjoying the benefits of sending my kids to public colleges, it is really hard for me to feel my taxes an excessive burden.
I truly respect the wealthy - at least those who attained their wealth through their efforts rather than mere inheritance. But when I hear wealthy folk moan about such things as taxes - well - in simple terms it makes me wonder how greedy they can be. Just my opinion.