John Brown Q: how does a broadsword appear in 1856 Kansas?

In the Potawatomi Massacre, John Brown and his sons captured and killed 5 pro-slavery enemies. History records the weapon used as a broadsword.

Like a Viking sword? I imagine there were plenty of cavalry sabers available. Napoleonic-era infantrymen had short, straight swords for multiple uses besides melee fighting. But would a local blacksmith be able to make a satisfactory broadsword? Or did Brown get his sword from a theater company?

‘Broadsword’ doesn’t necessarily mean the kind of sword associated with knights. Brown & Co. might have used a basket-hilted sword (‘Scottish broadsword’, e.g.) that was in use throughout the 18th Century.

EDIT: To avoid confusion, I know that the Massacre occurred in the 19th Century. However, 18th Century broadswords might well have been readily available at the time.

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I don’t know anything about swords, so I can’t tell you what they were, but they were a gift to Brown from “General” Lucius Bierce, Ambrose’s uncle, who had his own colorful history with the Ohio militia from a few decades prior.

As Johnny L. A. said, it was probably something like this

Lincoln was challenged to a duel and chose broadswords.

So, they must have been around.

“Broadsword” is a relatively modern term - 18th Century, at the earliest - referring to any blade heavier than a rapier or saber. Properly speaking, it should not be used to refer to medieval weapons.

Certain military units continued to use swords, not just as antiques. For example, some Confederate artillery units in the Civil War still issued “broadswords.”

Here is a contemporary example:

http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/edged-weapons/swords/3645

So what did they call them in the 12th century?

<Connor McLeod>A sword?</CMcL> :slight_smile:

Pretty much that, although the modern term for what’s popularly perceived as the “classic” medieval blade is the “Arming Sword” or “Knightly Sword”.

Either way, referring to any sword used before 1550 or so as a “broadsword” is generally considered incorrect.

Interesting essay on that very topic:

Their position agrees with you, Alessan.

I guess there’s an entire generation of us that learned our swordsmanship from Dungeons and Dragons and never quite got the straight dope. Ignorance vanquished (critical hit, triple damage!)

1st and 2 Edition AD&D, actually; they’re the only ones that had “broadswords”. Those of us who started with *regular *D&D know that swords come in just three shapes: Short, Normal, and Two-Handed.

(Don’t try to out-geek me, pal.)

<continuation of highjack>I did briefly start out with D&D (little books, in the box; 1974 edition), but our little group transitioned rather quickly to AD&D (not first edition; there were no other editions, just TSR and then WoTC trying to make unjustified money). Still, I’m not gonna pretend to out-nerd anyone. I have enough trouble shooing obvious noobs off my lawn without broadening my trouble space with alpha-geek fights.</hijack>

From Bruce Catton’s book “This Hallowed Ground: a History of the Civil War”

“As weapons go, these swords have an odd history. They were shorter than cavalry sabers, straight in blade, and some forgotten armorer had made them originally to government order as cavalry broadswords. (In the old days all gunners wore swords for defense against attack by charging dragoons). Then, in a sale of surplus property, the swords had been bought by a harebrained secret society in Ohio which called itself the Grand Eagles and which fuzzily imagined that one day it would attack and conquer Canada. The society’s plans came to nothing, and when a cranky hard-mouthed farmer-turned-sheep-trader came through the state muttering that the way to keep slavery out of Kansas was to go out there and “meddle directly with the peculiar institution,” the swords had been turned over to him. They were made of good steel and the society which had had such grand plans for them had had ornamental eagles etched on the blades.”

“Broadsword” is an early example of a “retronym”, where a word has to be coined for a subcategory which used to be the entirety of the category but no longer is: like “analogue watch” (after digital watches came to be) or “conventional weapons” (after ABC weapons came to be) or, a personal favorite, “British English” (which is really “English English” since we don’t mean Scots English when we say “British English”, but we do need some way to distinguish it from American English or Australian English). Only after rapiers, fencing epees, etc. came to exist was it necessary to invent a special term for the kind of “sword” that used to be the only kind of sword there was.