John Kerry's War Record

Factual Questions
21

I too can’t remember the exact details but I remember a Greg Palast’s “Best Democracy Money Can Buy”, has a fairly convincing describtion of the deals that got Bush his place. As I remember it was done with the offical in charge of the appointments to NG, which were very much in demand as a way of getting out of service in Vietam. The offical in question was actual a Democrat, how later receive some kind of prid quo pro in his business dealings…

If anyone has the book hand the could give a cite, all the chapters in it have pretty good references…

22

Told ya
At least now we’ll get the truth. :stuck_out_tongue:

23

That said, the title of this thread is “John Kerry’s war record” not “George Bush’s lack of a war record”…

I’d be intrested to know if there is any basis in fact for the main allegations in the original article, how ever dodgy the source:

<quote> Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast. </quote>

Was he only “in country” for four months, is it really that unusual getting that amount of medals in that time ?

<quote> was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch?</quote>

Well was he ? Was it even his decision ?

I guess the "Uncle Bill’s"comments above cover the point about the incident he received a silver star for.

24

Some info on Bush’s favortism in the Guard…

25

I believe I made myself abundantly clear in my first post. This thread is not about George Bush. Any post about Bush in this thread is a red herring which does not address the question as asked and in this context can presumed to be politicking. This is not the place to for pro-Bush opinions or anti-Bush opinions or even facts about Bush. This thread is for factual information about John Kerry’s war record, and nothing else.

Facts (not opinions) about Geroge Bush’s service record would be permissible in a GQ thread about George Bush’s service record. But that subject is so controversial that most such threads should probably be in the GD forum anyway. Perhaps the subject of Kerry’s service is controversial enough to belong in GD too, but I believe the subject can resolved factually as some of the better posts here demonstrate.

The following posters should consider themselves officially warned for ignoring my previous post: leenmi, YPOD, plnnr, griffin77, and rjung.

bibliophage
moderator GQ

26

In particular, rjung, as a recipient of at leat one previous warning for an unrelated infraction and several borderline politicking posts, you should consider yourself to be on thin ice.

bibliophage
moderator GQ

27

Asked griffin77:

Generally, the lower officer ranks don’t last very long in combat. I lost my citation list, unfortunately, but I’m reasonably sure these estimates are accurate.

Captain Wesley Clark lasted from July 1969 to February, 1970 before being wounded and shipped home.

Senator Bob Kerrey (not the Presidential candidate) seems to have lasted only two months as the commander of a seven-man SEAL team in 1967. In that time he participated in a highly controversial battle at Thanh Phong, had a foot blown off, and was awarded a Medal of Honor.

Lt. Commander John McCain served on the Forrestal, which departed Norfolk in June, 1967 and began combat operations off Vietnam shortly thereafter. In late July, McCain was literally at the center of the disasterous rocket incident which killed over 130 sailors. He transferred to the Oriskany and within three months was shot down over North Vietnam, where he spent 5+ years as a prisoner of war. His total combat time could not possibly have been more than four months.

Former Senator Bob Dole and Medal of Honor winner Daniel K. Inouye both lasted about three weeks in combat as lieutenants in Italy in World War II, and both lost the use of an arm for it.

Even Norman Schwarzkopf, as a Colonel in his second tour in Vietnam, racked up three Silver Stars and was wounded twice before being sent home.

Also keep in mind that thanks to the development of airmobility through the use of the helicopter, soldiers in Vietnam saw far more combat in a much shorter period than in any previous war. This site claims the following: “For a combat soldier in World War II who served for four years, the average time spent in actual combat was approximately 40 days. By comparison, Grunts in Vietnam spent an average of about two-thirds of their 12- or 13-month tours – over 250 days – in combat.”

The American style of command necessarily places junior officers in the thick of combat. This site claims that 6,600 commissioned officers died in Vietnam. If you include warrant officers, the total is 7,874 or 13.5% of all American deaths in Vietnam. Ninety-one percent of those officers were of the rank of captain or below.

28

Whoa…I disappear for awhile and look what happens to the thread.

Thanks, Sofa, for your insight and griffin for clarifying my question. Those are the factual points that I was most interested in.

29

And here is the Snopes reference.

30

I guess that settles that!
Thanks, Myron Van Horowitzski, from here on known as “Vann”. :slight_smile: