John Lennon's Legacy...

Great Debates
61

His ideology included some very fine thoughts, “Woman is the Nigger of the World, We’re All Water, and Sunday Bloody Sunday” are great capsulizations of some very good thinking about the mess we’re all in.

I watched Lennon evolve from a Mod Rocker to a Cultural Icon. There is a Swedish word, kulturbarer, which was what John was. He played the Pied Piper of Hamelin, and like the children my generation followed. Our government at that time was well aware of Lennon’s ability to lead people. “Power to the People” kind of solidarity was NOT what Richard Milhous Nixon wanted to hear. He had John watched.

Music has the ability to move people as little else can. Plato recognized this and in his “perfect society” he outlined in “The Republic” he said he would have all of music controlled by those in power to insure against insurrection. He provided a list of the different Greek Modes and explained why some of them should never be played as they cause unrest in individuals. Whether you agree with his thinking or mot, music permeates our lives and IS used by those in power to produce effects on us. Nearly every country in the world has an anthem for nearly every political power knows the value of music when it comes to producing feelings in their populace. Every President that had a “theme song” in this country won his election. The only exception is when the opponent had one too. We use music to worship, to accompany the making of vows like marriage (this isn’t just a Judeo-Christian heritage thing, the Native Americans used music for their wedding vows LONG before the White man came here) and to celebrate anything that is meaningful in our lives.

It was through this medium that John Lennon had power like no other during his life.

62

“Now a global phenomenon of unprecedented influence, the Beatles were asked to represent Britain in “Our World” the FIRST WORLD-WIDE TELEVISION SPECIAL, for the occasion they composed, “All You Need is Love” and performed it with a sing-a-long chorus of friends and celebrities before an audience of 200 Million people!” From the video " The Compleat Beatles".

“I think Sargent Pepper… is the most distinctive event in pop’s brief history and it marked the turning point when the Beatles stopped being a ritual dance music and became music to be listened to.” Wilfred Mellers, Musicologist

“Attitude. Graphic Design. Language and the recording business itself changed radically after Sargent Pepper. The album had touched a nerve ending among the population and set the stage for a new era with its own style and perceptions.” " The Compleat Beatles"

Those of you who dislike John or his music would find yourself at odds with the musicians that YOU DO like. Among musicians today, regardless of genre, John is respected. I am a classically trained musician myself (guitar and voice) though I also play and write Jazz, Rock, Pop, etc.

Brian Epstein (the Beatles first manager) and George Martin (producer and semi-composer of Beatles songs) were both affiliated with classical music. Epstein sold it and Martin was a classically trained musician.

63

I equate the Beatles with John for many reasons. First, he was the undisputed leader of the group from its inception to its demise. That is why all the tunes that he and Paul “co-wrote” say, “Lennon/McCartney” instead of the other way around. John formed the “Quarry Men” and asked Paul to join. Paul brought in George and they changed the name to “Johnny and the Moondogs” (another proof of Lennon’s leadership) then they were the “Silver Beetles” and finally “The Beatles”. Ringo (Richard Starkey) joined after recording became a serious matter, George Martin was going to bring in a studio musician but “the boys” dumped Pete Best and asked Ringo to join.

As large as the Beatles were, and they were VERY LARGE! they weren’t large enough to contain the genius of John Winston Ono Lennon. When he left the band was over. During the “Let it Be” sessions you see Paul try to run things and see how pitiful it was. Paul was great in his own way but he was no leader, at least not of the super talent that the Beatles had.

Would John have arrived at the fame and fortune he had without the help of others? No, probably not, but then nobody does. A smart leader will surround himself with others to aid him in his bid for greatness, which was what John did. Also luck helped.

Did John make mistakes? Yes, and that is what I also liked about him. He was human. Which shows how far any of us can go if we are determined and have a little luck.

64

Here are some links for those that wish to look at may enjoy:
http://members.aol.com/pop1rock1/JohnLennon/pictures.html
http://www.rajczyk.com/John_Lennon.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jon_wiener/

(FBI files)
http://www.searchlib.com/articles/JohnLennon_4520.htm
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/6191/ijustshotjohnlennon.htm
http://hotbot.lycos.com/?MT=John+Lennon&SQ=1&Domain=P&BT=H&x=45&y=10

Which is where all the previous sites came from.

[Edited at Phaedrus’ request to fix long link]

[Note: This message has been edited by David B]

[Note: This message has been edited by David B]

65

Here are some quotes.

“Love means having to say you’re sorry every five minutes.”

“Love is the flower you’ve got to let grow.”

“Life is what happens to you when you’re busy making other plans.”

“Love is a promise, love is a souvenir, once given never forgotten, never let it disappear.”

“If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there’d be peace.”

“You can’t cheat kids. If you cheat them when they’re children they’ll make you pay when they’re sixteen or seventeen by revolting against you or hating you or all those so-called teenage problems. I think that’s finally when they’re old enough to stand up to you and say, 'What a hypocrite you’ve been all this time. You’ve never given me what I really wanted, which is you.”

“If The Beatles or the 60’s had a message, it was 'Learn to swim, and once you’ve learned-SWIM.”

“I believe in everything until it’s disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it’s in your mind. Who’s to say that dreams and nightmares aren’t as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.”

“I don’t intend to be a performing flea anymore. I was the dreamweaver, but although I’ll be around I don’t intend to be running at 20,000 miles an hour trying to prove myself. I don’t want to die at 40.”

“Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat.”

“The reason why kids are crazy is because nobody can face the responsibility of bringing them up.”

“You make your own dream. That’s the Beatles’ story, isn’t it? That’s Yoko’s story. That’s what I’m saying now. Produce your own dream. If you want to save Peru, go save Peru. It’s quite possible to do anything, but not to put it on the leaders and the parking meters. Don’t expect Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan or John Lennon or Yoko Ono or Bob Dylan or Jesus Christ to come and do it for you. You have to do it yourself. That’s what the great Masters and mistresses have been saying ever since time began. They can point the way, leave signposts and little instructions in various books that are now called holy and worshiped for the cover of the book and not for what it says, but the instructions are all there for all to see, have always been and always will be. There’s nothing new under the sun. All the roads lead to Rome. And people cannot provide it for you. I can’t wake you up. You can wake you up. I can’t cure you. You can cure you.”

66

At the end of the day Lennon inspired a generation of people who became the movers and shakers of our present world. William Jefferson Clinton (whether you like him or not) got up on stage at his inauguration and played Saxophone with Fleetwood Mac ( A REAL moment in our History), that never would have happened without Johnny and the Moondogs. I feel sure if you were to ask our President about John he wouldn’t have a bad thing to say about him. Many journalists today who do their fair share of spin doctoring were but some of the followers that Lennon and his ideology groomed. As Lennon influenced the leaders of this country his impact is made upon the world both culturally and politically.

Do I idolize the man? Yes, in some respects I do even though I am sure he wouldn’t have wanted that. I carried some of his ideology into political office when I served my term and I was aware of it at the time. I don’t see anything wrong with having a hero or two. God knows our country needs them now. I am not an ideological clone of John’s, we differ in our solutions but not very much as to the diagnosis of the problems. And even though there are some songs of his I don’t like and even though I would try to fix the world in a different way, I cannot but help to see his influence and recognize his genius.

" I am left with the one thing I wanted not to say, because it’s so old and so fucking funereal: We are better people because of John Lennon. And now, when we need to be better still, and braver, with a deeper, more encompassing vision, losing him is terrifying. It cuts so deeply. It’s hard to believe our luck has gotten this bad." Scott Spencer

"And so Happy Christmas for black and for white, the yellow and red ones, let’s stop all the fight.

A very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, let’s hope it’s a good one without any fear."

John Lennon

All you need is love
…(love is all you need)
Love is all you need
…(love is all you need)
Love is all you need
…(love is all you need)
Love is all you need
…(love is all you need)
Love is all you need
…(love is all you need)
Love is all you need
…(love is all you need)
Love is all you need
…(love is all you need)
Love is all you need
…(love is all you need)
Love is all you need
…(love is all you need)
Phaedrus

For what a man had rather were true he more readily believes.

67

Two favors to ask: One, I need the moderator of this thread to fix the screw up that I inadvertently caused and two, would someone please post a picture of John for this thread? I am just a little computer inept and don’t know how to do it. One of the links I proved has a slew of good shots but ANY shot of John would do. Even if you don’t like me, I ask this for John, please?

Happy Christmas,

Phaedrus

For what a man had rather were true he more readily believes.

68

“Inside the mahogany-paneled office of the Dakota apartment house in New York City, on one of the warmest December nights on record, Jay Hastings waited for John Lennon and Yoko Ono to come home. The burly bearded twenty-seven-year-old doorman had worked at the Dakota for more than two years. He’d always said that the best part of his job was getting to know John and Yoko, who owned five apartments in the building. Hastings had been a Beatles fan since he was a kid; he’s even collected Fab Four picture cards. But now he was more than a fan. John Lennon knew him by name. Lennon would say, “bon soir, Jay,” when he and Yoko came back from a night on the town or in the studio, and sometimes they’d joke around. Tonight, Hastings had a surprise: a red Plexiglas rain hat that an avant-garde clothes designer had dropped off for Yoko. He planned to ask them to guess what it was.
Hastings was reading a magazine shortly before 11 o’clock p.m., when he heard several shots outside the office, and then the sound of shattering glass. He stiffed. He heard someone coming up the office steps. John Lennon stumbled in, a horrible, confused look on his face. Yoko followed, screaming, “John’s been shot. John’s been shot.” At first, Hastings thought it was a crazy joke. Lennon walked several steps, then collapsed on the floor, scattering the cassette tapes of his final session, which he’s been holding in his hands.
Hastings triggered an alarm that summoned the police and he rushed to John’s side. The anguished doorman gently removed Lennon’s glasses, which seemed to be pushing in on his contorted face. He struggled out of his blue Dakota jacket and placed it over Lennon. Then he stripped off his tie to use as a tourniquet, but there was no place to put it. Blood streamed from Lennon’s chest and mouth. His eyes were open but unfocused. He gurgled once, vomiting blood and fleshy material.
Yoko, frantic, screamed for a doctor and an ambulance. Hastings dialed 911 and asked for help. Then he returned to Lennon’s side and said, “It’s okay, John. You’ll be all right.”
The doorman stationed outside ran in and told Hastings the attacker had dropped his gun on the sidewalk. Hastings went after the gunman. It wasn’t necessary. The pudgy young man who had shot Lennon was standing calmly on West Seventy-second Street, reading “The Catcher in the Rye”.
Two squad cars screeched up and four cops jumped out, guns drawn. “Put up your hands!” they told Hastings, who was wild-eyed and covered with blood. “Not him,” the other doorman shouted. “He works here.” He pointed to the young man who had been reading. “He’s the one.” Two cops slammed the suspect against the Dakota’s elegant stone facade. The other two policemen and Hastings ran into the building.
It was then, after seeing the splintered office window and the blood in the alley, that Hastings realized John Lennon had been dying in front of his eyes.
Against Yoko’s wishes, police turned Lennon over to access his wounds. They said they couldn’t wait for an ambulance and gingerly hoisted him off the floor. Hastings, gripped Lennon’s left arm and shoulder blade, heard shattered bones crack as they moved him out the door. Lennon’s body was limp; his arms and legs akimbo. They put him into a police car for the trip to Roosevelt hospital. Yoko climbed into a second cruiser. Hastings walked back to the building and waited in the office. Thirty minutes later, word reached the Dakota; John Winston Ono Lennon, forty-year-old husband and father was gone.”

Taken from the book, “The Ballad of John and Yoko” published by the Editors of “Rolling Stone” magazine, 1982.

69

David B: Thank you for fixing the link. Is there anything that can fix the screen? It stills run way off to the right side. If I enlarge my screen I can read it but I would like this thread to have the same status in readability as the others.

Can you fix that as well?

Thank you again,

Phaedrus

70

The only way to fix that is to shorten the topic title. That is what’s causing it to go off to the right, even though the text of the messages stay properly on the screen.

If you want me to shorten it, I can. You created the thread, so tell me what you want it to be.

David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator

71

How about, “John Lennon’s Legacy…”

Thank you again!

Phaedrus

72

There ya go.

David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator

73

John Lennon * Ono * Lennon? Aw geez, I don’t know whether to be impressed or to roll my eyes…

74

PunditLisa: John was an avid feminist.
Something I think most men could learn a
thing or two.

When he and Yoko got married,
he changed his name to

John Winston Ono Lennon.

Does this screen look messed up to you?
Phaedrus

For what a man had rather were true he more readily believes.

75

You haven’t looked at the early Vee Jay singles or the “Wings Over America” credits lately, have you?

“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather

76

I know about the Vee Jay singles, I feel they
were corporate decisions.
I didn’t know about the “Wings Over America”.

I’ll check it out.

I am curious about one thing though.

Paul sang a song in which he said,

“I love you, Johnny” it was a tribute to Lennon.

I heard it at one of the vigils.

But I have never found it for sale.

I wonder if it was ever available.
Phaedrus

For what a man had rather were true he more readily believes.

77

Just a post to keep this thread in the loop.

After all, its for John…

78

“Happiness is a warm gun.”

John Lennon

Not to be disrespectful, but I don’t think it
is/was.

79

I heard George Harrison and wept, the nuts

are everywhere it seems. Very Sad :frowning:

80

Has anyone heard how George is?