I’m not asking about the regular military pros and cons, but more of the treatment you may get outside of the general things you read about in brochures. Specifically, the notion of being a “weekend wannabe soldier”, and how the regular soldiers loathe them (or so I’ve heard). I wouldn’t mind joining the reserves, but not if I would have to deal with a bunch of immature horseshit from career soldiers. Then again, I might be wrong - this type of stuff ain’t exactly easy to find out about from you home PC, and I don’t want to jump to any unfounded conclusions here.
Yes, I know you’ll have to deal with unfair treatment where ever you go or whatever you do, but is there a dis-proportionally high amount of it waiting for the new reserve recruit?
(PS - I’m in Canada, but opinions from anywhere would be welcome)
I wasn’t sure which forum to put this in… seeing as how the answers depend on people’s opinions, I thought I’d try it here.
Okay… I answered this about 20 minutes ago and waxed eloquent, then my puter locked up and it went to la-la land… so, I’ll try it again, although I’m sure much less eloquently than earlier.
First of all, good idea or no. Well, that depends on what you are looking to get out of it. Reserves, like anything else is what you make it. With the right attitude, it can be a good thing. With the wrong one, you’ll not be very happy.
I’m not sure how it is up in Canada, or with other services in the U.S. but from a USMC point of view, at least in the 80’s, I can say that you definitely have the right attitude of a reservist by referring to any resentment as “immature horseshit”. Before you get upset thinking that I’m busting your balls from this point on, I’m not. I’m answering your question from a “regular soldier” point of view.
Yes, you will be resented, at least by the professional soldier. There are some active duty folks that are reservists in attitude, and just biding time till they get out, but I’m talking about the professional soldier who loves what he does. Normally it’s not an open hostility, but you’ll get the cold shoulder a lot. Why? It goes a lot further than “immature horseshit”. I’ve worked with a lot of reservists over my service time and a large number of reservists feel, based on what they have told me openly, that they feel that the regular soldier should have more respect for them than the opposite, as they are not only holding a civilian job but giving up a weekend a month and two weeks a year to serve their country. To them, this is a sacrifice. It doesn’t hold water though, to an NCO who has just worked the past 8 weekends in a row. A very large part of most military services is esprit de corps and cameraderie. Respect is earned, not easily. As a reservist, you are a civilian and do not belong.
The average reservist is there for some college money and to have a little fun on the side. Keep in mind, that your counterpart in the military is living in a condemned barracks, sometimes working 16 or more hours a day, for perhaps weeks on end. He may have just spent 6 months on a ship or in the field away from his family, with maybe 3 phone calls. He pulls guard duty or mess duty for a month at a shot. He stands daily inspections and has his living area inspected with Q-tips once a week. He is 27 years old and not allowed to have a beer in his “home” or a girlfriend over. He has to ask permission sometimes to leave base, and still must stay within a certain radius. He does this, and a hell of a lot more “not-so-fun” stuff for poverty wages. Then the weekend warriors show up. He pulls extra duty to observe/instruct/etc. the reservists. Then, when the weekend is over, he pulls extra duty to fix what the reservists broke, and make up the training that they couldn’t do because the warriors had the range time, while the reservist goes back to his 8 hours a day. The regular soldier, in general feels that, if you want to serve your country, then do it. Don’t come in expecting to be on equal terms, because you aren’t. This is not to say though, that you will always be resented. There are a lot of reservists that that I and others have the highest respect for. But they earned it. It wasn’t bestowed on them just because they occasionally put on the uniform. Not to mention of course that after much observation, the average reserve unit is less than impressive with their professionalism.
The military mindset is one that isn’t easily understood by people outside the military. It’s not something that can be easily explained, if at all. But look at the bright side. You’ll only be resented for one weekend a month, two weeks a year. The average career soldier, in their military town, is resented every day. But the career soldier doesn’t care. He does what he does for himself, his unit, his corps, his country, blah blah blah (insert motivational music here)… but it’s true. But if you think you will have drinks bought for you at the club, just because you are “in the army today”… it’s not going to happen. The long term reservist, and the active duty turned reservist, generally don’t get resentment. They have earned the respect.
Again, I cannot speak for other countries, or for all services, or for the current time. This is how it was in the 80’s, among the SNCO ranks down. You will be granted a certain amount of respect for the fact that you earned a uniform. But you will be far and away from being on equal grounds until you prove yourself, which won’t be easy.
If I missed the point of your OP, please let me know and I’ll try and clarify, but I hope this helped.
I see where some of the resentment comes from… and I had an odd feeling that my question was worded in not the best way… ignore the “immature horseshit” description - that came from the idea that being automatically thrown into a catagory labeled “DISrespect this person BEFORE you find out anything about them, or even REGARDLESS of what you find out about them” was not exactly how any person should tolerate being treated; but I guess their are reasons for everything. Yeah, I realize respect has to be earned anywhere you go… but it seems that the deck is stacked quite unevenly.
I agree that anyone who actually considers himself a “weekend warrior” should be given the cold shoulder - hell, they are just as annoying to CIVILIANS when they come home FROM the base. I’m asking more about the person who will put in an honest effort, doesn’t EXPECT to be treated as an equal, and already knows he’s not a “real soldier” - would such people actually be recognized or are they all just lumped together as rejects no matter how hard they try by the majority of full-timers. I mean, you can eventually gain respect anywhere from most anyone; but is it one of those deals where you need to put in 10X the effort that should be neccesary? (sort of like how a woman needs to be twice the man that a guy would be to get the same level of treatment in a male-dominated workplace?)
No, not really. Granting that I was in a different sort of a reserve unit (Res EW Sqn.) everybody’s pretty much there to do their job. There’s no more reserve/reg force rivalry than there is between any other two groups, and when you do work with regular force people you might be surprised at how many of them aren’t as good as reserves. Mind you, I’m speaking from the perspective of the Canadian Armed Forces; Turbo Dog is speaking from the perspective of the U.S. Marine Corps, which is a much more professional and skilled military force than the Canadian Forces in general (though we do have many elite soldiers, you won’t deal with them much. Our army, overall, isn’t nearly as good as the Marines. But we’re better paid than American soldiers.)
Canada’s army is much more dependent upon reserves than the U.S. forces are, to the point that regular force units frequently grant contracts to reservists to fill roles; I knew “Reservists” who were full time soldiers for years.
It also depends what unit you’re in, and what reg force personnel you’re dealing with. Some reserve units (are poorly funded and dont get a lot of field time, which is the only way you can really learn your stuff; others, like mine was, are well funded and so get a lot of practice.
All that said, Turbo is right; respect the regular forces for their experience and learn from them. It’ll make you a better soldier and you’ll earn their respect for it. Reservists serve a particular role in a modern army, a role that is substantially different from regular forces, and so you’re SUPPOSED to be treated differently. From your perspective, that’s a good thing. You’ll spend the better part of your time being trained, which is what you’re for - a backup force of trained personnel available for quick mustering if a really bad war ever breaks loose. You WON’T have to put up with the shit and the separation that regular force duty entails, but then, you won’t get the respect that deserves. It all evens out.
Trust me; it’s worth it. Go in with the right attitude; you’re there to LEARN. Soak up everything you can, bust your ass, and you’ll have fun and make some decent money.
I vastly enjoyed most of my time in the reserves. I found everyone I worked with (after basic 
) pretty patient and happy to teach me anything they could about their trade. I was able to dabble in vehicle tech, heavy weapons training, artillery and infantry. I was a radio operator by trade. The first two years I was in just sailed by and I had a great time. I never had any problem with the reg force people I worked with, but I think that comes back to two things, I respected them and I am a female.
The last two were miserable:
I got hit on, a lot. The worst were other radio operators and linemen. I had underwear stolen from the clothes dryer and on more than one occasion woke up to find a resourceful lineman had scaled the wall to come in my open window. I never had the same trouble with the infanteers I was detached out to parade (work) and go out to the field with.
Most of the reservists I worked with could be divided into a few categories - The ones who didn’t make it through basic training, the ones who did and left the unit in the first year, ones like me who stayed for a number of years until it wasn’t “fun” anymore, and the lifers.
I followed a few simple rules - never blade anyone, remember all of the mind games and stuff are just games not personal, and give the reg force the respect they deserve. I only had to put up with the bullshit one evening a week and weekends and I could quit anytime. They had to put up with the bullshit all the time, and they were bound by a contract.
Pain is a sign of weakness leaving your body.
Okay. I feel I can add something here. I am currently active U.S. Army. I can speak for myself and those I hang out with (I don’t really work with them, I have something of an odd military job), and I have to say that part of the dislike felt by active components towards the reservists is resentment over the fact that they are practically civilians and live much freer lives. The other part is that is seems they don’t have to suffer for this by tougher training or anything.
They just kind of wear the uniform every once in a while and still get to call themselves soldiers to real civilians.
From what I’ve seen, reservists don’t really do much when they are with an active unit, because they don’t know the “lay of the land”. The usual way things are done. The active guys usually kind of brush them under the carpet or give them errands to keep them busy and out of our hair.
On the other hand, do remember that because this is not really a way of life for them, if they get deployed to a combat area of a similarly dangerous situation (I have a friend from Utah who is deployed to Kosovo at this moment), they have to deal with the repercussions of interrupting their lives and jobs to accomplish the mission.
Also, they are people, so it’s not like we spit on them or anything. Heck, a few months ago, we had a slew of’em here and we’d all get together and drink beer all night. They were some cool people. Even had a married couple - the wife outranked her husband, but it was just kind of a joke.
Then we drank more beer.
Those were yours??? I’m sorry. I can send em back to you if you’d like. I only wore them a few times
mmmmiiikkeeeee, perhaps resentment wasn’t the right word. It’s basically a lack of respect. Reservists aren’t so much looked down upon, as it’s basically like a sports team. The regulars being Varsity, and the reservists being Junior Varsity. You are on the team, just not considered to be even near the same level. If you are willing to learn, and enjoy what you are doing and have a professional attitude, you’ll get along fine. A reservist is a lot like a butterbar lieutenant. A willingness to learn without having too much of an attitude, and not looking down on the lower ranking guy teaching you that knows a lot more than you do at the moment will carry you a long ways. The opposite attitude will brand you pretty poorly and that is something that will stick with you, and that is the attitude that a lot of reservists have from the get-go, hence much of the unwelcome receptions. And Gorgon is right, there is a trace of jealousy in that we wanted your nice house, freedoms, money and life in general when you left base, but we wouldn’t have traded.