Joining the US Military. . . .?

In My Humble Opinion
41

Damn, you people who read what I wrote rather than what I intended to write frustrate me no end. :wink:

I didn’t mean to imply that he had to finish an enlistment in order to become an officer (I have read some articles which suggest that we’d have a better military officer corps if we did require that, but that’s another thread entirely).

What I did say was that the only officers I knew personally who had prior enlisted experience had either finished an enlistment and then gone to college, etc., or had been selected as an enlisted for one of the 170 Academy slots reserved for enlisted persons, and received a degree from the Academy.

I’ve not read the webpages I cited in depth, but I don’t think the Navy’s “Seaman to Admiral” program would be much help either. From what I’ve read, that program seems geared towards finding superior performing enlisted persons, and giving them a college scholarship and officer training, with a degree and a commission at the end of that process. Since the OP is finishing college, I doubt there’s a slot open in such a program for a person in his position.

Cheers,

bcg

42

That says a lot right there.

Cheers,

bcg

43

Regardless of whether you go in as an O or an E, the prime directive is the same: keep your mouth shut and your ears open. To do otherwise will risk your losing the respect of your subordinates (as an officer), or being branded as a fuckup by your superiors (as an enlisted man). There is a HUGE amount to learn about military life and responsibilities, not to mention learning your job. As the old adage goes: better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

44

Good Luck finding yourself.

45

Not to hijack this thread, but what can anyone tell me about being an Officer in Naval Special Warfare, specifically SEALs or SWCC? I’ve been training dutifully for almost a year, and I graduate in December but haven’t yet been in contact with a recruiter because I have a feeling I’ll be pressured into enlisting rather than waiting for graduation and applying to OCS. I know all the physical requirements for the PST and all that, but I guess I’m just wondering if we have any guys on here that could give me a little more direction WRT what I’m going to be getting myself into.

And yes, I know what the attrition rate for BUD/S is, but I’m not going to concern myself too much with failure. I know (not think) that I have what it takes, and right now my only concern is setting myself up for success, both mentally and physically.

46

The official Navy SEAL recruiting website is here:

http://www.sealchallenge.navy.mil/

That may have some of the information you want.

I wouldn’t be shy about talking to a recruiter now. I doubt if he’d pressure you to enlist, especially this close to graduation. If he does, there are just five simple words you have to tell him: “I want to graduate first.”

One thing though, to be a SEAL officer, IIRC you have to be commissioned by whatever route (Academy, NROTC, OCS) and then apply to join the special warfare community. If I’m not mistaken, the competition for BUD/S is fierce. You might have to spend a year or two being a “mere” Naval officer before you can get to BUD/S. [In fact, if I’m recalling correctly SEAL enlisteds have to have spent several years in the fleet before they can even put in for SEAL training.]

Good luck!

Cheers,

bcg

47

Some good gouge here, and you may want to poke around here. AFAIK, civvie to SEAL O is possible through OCS, but very very hard. Certainly worth trying, but make sure you have a plan as far as how many attempts you can make before hitting the age limit and when to cut bait and enlist to try and get to BUDS. You’ll get more (easier) respect from your men going the E route, having already established a rep in the community, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take a shot at the direct route. I’ve also heard to talk to a SEAL Motivator/rep vice a normal Navy O or E recruiter for the no-sh*t gouge. If your normal recruiter can’t put you in touch with one for whatever reason, try another.

Good luck whichever way you wind up going.

48

Sorry, but you really do only think you have what it takes. That’s a good start, and I’m not doubing your sincerity, but I’ve watched SEALs in training at Coronado, and there is nothing in the civilian world to prepare you for what those guys go through.

49

Thanks for all the links, I’m checking them out right now. As always, very informative and helpful.

Chefguy I know what you are saying, but I refuse to let any doubt creep into my mind. I’ll use your words as motivation. Thanks.

50

Have you read Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell and Patrick Robinson? I read it last year and couldn’t put it down. A good deal of the book is spent on his training to become a SEAL. For background on the story, see Wiki’s entry on Operation Red Wing.

51

No, I haven’t read the book though I am familiar with Operation Red Wing. I’ll be sure to pick it up soon.

52

Thanks for all the info guys…

And everyone is correct about not being 100% on knowing what I’m doing yet, thus why I started looking into it now. I have 9 months before I’m through with classes, so I feel thats enough time to think about it, read up, and make an informed decision.

I really like the idea of the E to O kind of program. Even though you all seem to oppose it, I’m guessing it is due to my not having any military life experience and only being a civilian. Are there any other such programs that you guys know about that I could look into?

53

Still was in 03, when I got out. I was frocked E-6(Passed the test, but not officially promoted yet) with 6 and a half years in. Really, really fast for most of the service, but normal or maybe slightly above normal for nukes. Being a nuke enlisted/officer generally sucks more though. Lots more responsibility, lots more flak. Lots of extra continuous training and testing. Worse duty rotation than the rest of the ship(Engineering/reactor divisions were on 4 section duty… rest of ships company was on 12). And the yearly ORSE inspections… dear god that was a special brand of hell all of its own.
Oh, and E to O programs may not be the best way to become officers, but the best officers I served with were prior enlisted. They were generally more knowledgeable and competent, and easier to work with. IMHO, at least. If it is actually a detriment to becoming an officer then that is a shame.

54

Thats part of why I want to do it, I feel I could be a much better officer if I’ve experienced being enlisted and knowing where the people I am responsible for and bossing around have been.

55

While your intentions are good, you’re still just making excuses for some reason. You want to know where they have been? There’s nothing wrong with that, but it won’t necessarily make you a better leader. It all depends on your other leadership traits. Knowing where they have been, for some prior E’s makes them less effective, since they sympathize too much with their E’s. Be involved with them, and make it very clear you’re looking out for them when it comes to fitness reports, pay issues, awards, good deal opportunities, advancement tests (making sure then know when they are and affording plenty of time to study), that type of stuff. Make yourself available and listen to their concerns. Follow up. Praise them for work well done.

I could go on, but the above are common traits of good, effective leaders (there are others, but these are ones I can think of off the top of my head that involve dealing with your subordinates). You won’t see in there anything about being a prior E. Also, one thing that may haunt you, if you stay in the same area, is undue relationships with the friends that you made as an E. You have to start being very careful how you interact with these people once you’re an O. You want to totally alienate yourself as an O and set yourself up for failure? Spend all your free time in the smoke pit hanging with the E’s.

If you’re a good leader, it won’t be because you were prior. So don’t get fooled into thinking that you need that experience.

56

A confused soon-to-be college graduate, reminds me of myself 28 years ago.
“Anybody been thru Naval Officer Candidate School, raise your hand.” (dba Fred raises his hand)
Ahh yes, Newport, RI, I remember it as if it was … 27 years ago. 112 days, pick up our gold bars, then go out & defend the American way of life.
I’ve been trying to write a perfect post for a day or 2 and folks smarter than me keep saying things better than I could so I have to start all over again. Here’s my perspective from attending Naval OCS 27 years ago, some things may have changed and may not apply to the other services. The majority of my classmates were headed to the Fleet as line officers/boat drivers as compared to Supply or Nuclear Power programs.

I understand what the **OP** is saying, I was there.  But you won't be selected for OCS until you have taken the tests and had your background checked and the service decides that they **want** you because they have determined you are likely to be successful.  It costs them time and money to recruit candidates; why would they send you (or anybody) who is likely to wash out?  In my class of 30, 29 earned their commissions and 1 person washed out due to a bum knee.
OCS was different from college, more compressed and intense but it don't worry, your days are very organized and controlled with the focus of giving you the knowledge to be a junior officer.  I had a puny Social Science General Studies degree (they needed bodies for Reagan's 600 ship Navy back then) but they taught me the 1200 lb steam cycle, celestial navigation, the nautical rules of the road, military customs & courtesies, damage control, basic seamanship and lots more.  The military has the best instructors and they want you to understand what they are teaching; they may someday serve with you and their life may depend on what they taught you.  Additionally, your classmates will help you and you will help them.

What you don't know and probably couldn't know is that you don't have the weight of the free world on your shoulders right out the door.  They don't hand you the keys to the ship right out of OCS (there are no ship keys).  After OCS and before I reported to my assigned ship, I had to attend and complete a follow-on school, in my case Surface Warfare Officer's School.  Even after completing SWOS, when I reported to the USS Enterprise (CVN-65), I stood watches in Under Instruction (UI) status until I passed the qualification exams.  
You will probably be a Division or Assistant Division Officer but you don't perform that in a vacuum.  Your Department Head will mentor and guide (and yell) at you, your Divisional Chief will also do so, in a different manner.  I found a "1 Up - 1 Down" style worked:  I didn't worry about making the Commanding Officer of the ship happy, I worried about making the person one step up the ladder happy, my Department Head.  My Department Head didn't care if I was happy or unhappy, all he was concerned with was the results he wanted.  In the same way, I told the Divisional Chief not to worry about making the Department Head happy, his job was to keep me happy and I didn't care if he was happy or unhappy; and so on down the line.  The Chain of Command works.

You will be taught the theory of leadership in various schools, you will see it and put it into practice when you get to your unit.  The officers senior to you will help you, the senior enlisted will help you.  Folks who have been down the road before you have the experience to help you, as you gain experience you will help others.

I saw my job as to take care of my troops, I couldn’t do what was expected of me without them. The officer’s job is mainly administrative. I had a different skill set that Seaman Schumckatelli; if he had a problem with his pay and couldn’t get it answered, it was my job to go to Disbursing and try to sort it out. When it came time to write evaluations, I wanted input from Seaman Schumckatelli’s supervisors but I determined what my input would be to my Department Head. On the other hand, I trusted my Chief’s judgment in who to assign to the watchbill. In general you want to help your stellar performers (who make you look good) and get rid of the bottom-dwellers.

The services are big organizations and ships/bases/squadrons/departments/divisions are organizations.  They all have daily routines and standard operating procedures and emergency procedures.  It is all interconnected, you have a job to do and depend on personnel to support you, other personnel have a job to do and depend on you - Admin Dept depends on you to submit a daily muster report, you depend on Supply Dept to fulfill your requisition for toilet paper.

I echo what has been said better than I can: Investigate the options, see what programs are available, talk to the ROTC folks if there are units on your campus, see if there is the ARCO test book in your library.

Wishing you fair winds and following seas.