I need some information. Perhaps this is supposed to go in IMHO, but really I want some facts. Then again I guess I also want opinions…mods I guess you’ll decide. I am also going on military web sites but for one thing they use so many acronyms that I sometimes can scarcely figure out what they are talking about. My husband is about 2 years from a college degree. We are leaning strongly, after much thought and resistance from me that joining the Navy* might be the right thing for him. I’m trying to keep this thread focused so don’t want to go into all the factors we considered…
Main question: How competitive is it to get into Officer Candidate School? Can he finish his degree from a place like National University (they say you can do one class per month) in a year and then apply, or should he stick with original plan to get degree from San Diego State University?
We were initially thinking he would go in as enlisted and then finish school when he got out. However, he can make a lot more money as an officer (not to mention other quality of life issues, I think), plus if he finishes at least a bachelor’s degree now, on his own time, we would have that done. Issues: he’s 31. Turns 32 in June 2010. The Navy age limit is 34. And he can’t do ROTC either, age limit is 23 I believe. Does his age make it less likely he’ll get a commission?
One reason I ask is that we really want him to get in sooner than later…we want me to be able to stay home with the baby or work parttime, not fulltime. And I want to get pregnant again sometime soon. On an officer salary we can make it. We can’t on enlisted salary – I’d still have to work. So if I have to work anyway, I might as well work while he finishes school and then have him go in as an officer.
We considered having him go into the Reserves now and then switch to active when he’s done with college, but apparently it’s hard to switch - the Reserves can say, no we don’t want to let you go. You have to give the Reserves 8 years so it’s not like we can wait until he’s finished with his Reserves commitment and then go. He’d have to get permission to switch. Thoughts?
We are going back to see the recruiter today. We’ve met with him once and he shattered all recruiter stereotypes - not hard sell at all, very open (I asked him a question, perhaps about switching jobs or trying to become an officer. He said, “I don’t know. My job is to get him in the Navy. I don’t know how that would work once he gets in. I couldn’t make you any promises.”) Hopefully he can help out. But I wanted some Doper insight. Thanks in advance…
*This thread is not about the branches - for age reasons and our location and other reasons, Navy is really the only one that makes sense or is viable.
I was never in the Navy, but I know that switching from the Guard to active duty is really easy. It’s a one-page form, so I hear. And I hope you’re not just looking at base pay. With a wife and kids, there’s a lot more money in it than you think. Plus, with a college degree, he probably doesn’t have to start as an E1. The Army starts you out at E4.
And I’d stick with the college he’s doing now. I know from experience that if you start doing something else, it’s hard to stay on the college track. Just finish school and then get in.
OK. That’s interesting about switching from Guard to active, good to know. Ack, new development, I just realized that you have to a citizen to be an officer. He’s a lawful permanent resident. 3 years until he gets citizenship. Which means that we’d have to wait that long for him to even go in. I don’t know about that. I know it would be hard to finish school from inside the military, but if he goes in now, he can get his citizenship in a year (they accelerate it).
I don’t know your specifics, but I hope you realize that being eligible for citizenship and getting it are not the same thing with respect to time - it’s easily a year and a half away from when you are eligible to apply to when you actually get the citizenship, if nothing extra happens to draw it out
I don’t know about the Navy, but I can tell you what I know about the Army. As far as switching from Reserves to Active, it used to be no more than permission from your Commander and signing a piece of paper requesting to be released from the Reserves. As I understand it, currently the Navy is not releasing Reserves to go Active, and neither is the Army. Exceptions are granted, but the minimum wait time is two years and it is not guaranteed.
As to finishing school while he is in, I used to require my Soldiers to take college classes each semester. After all, the Army is paying for it, and there is enough time in your daily schedule to do so. Hell, look at the number of college students who work a full time job and go to school full time. The Military is no different, in fact, your schedule is more structured than it would be in most civilian jobs.
As to the decision to become an Officer now or later. In the Army, and I assume all branches, all Officers will be required to be approved for a security clearance. If your husband is not a citizen, he is not eligible for any job requiring a clearance. That means that he will not be able to enter as an Officer until he has his citizenship and has applied for a security clearance. He could go in Enlisted and finish his degree, and then become and Officer when he has done that. Converting to a commissioned Officer will be easier if he is already in, because he will have more assistance completing his application packet when he is in with other Officers rather than trying to do it on his own.
I wish him luck and if you have any specific questions about joining the Army you or he can PM me.
Certainly nothing wrong about being an enlisted man. However, with a degree in hand I don’t know why he wouldn’t look toward being an Officer. W/regard to the degree itself, the Navy likes technology. Makes sense when you consider what they work with. The love “nuclear” guys. On the other hand, the Marines aren’t that specific/technical as they are looking for leadership qualities. To the extent that money is a concern, he’s better off with the Army or Navy as they are larger organizations and generally speaking promotions come quicker. Now, if pride is important… become a Marine.
Thanks for the replies and PM input, much appreciated, Chessic Sense, SSG Schwartz, SanDiegoTim, and others. He doesn’t have the degree in hand, and it’s not going to be a hard science when he gets it. So, I’m thinking that maybe the following approach is the best:
We saw the recruiter again today, and apparently if you’re already in when you apply, they’re not as concerned about what your degree is in. Otherwise, yes, they really like technology-related degrees. Also another concern is that we need health insurance, yesterday, so that we can finish having kids (not to mention all the other reasons). I’m 36. If he joins now, we can get the Navy to pay for all that and there will be less pressure on me to find and keep a job that has good benefits while he finishes school. This way I can work part time/do contract work and have a better quality of life/time with the kids. It’s funny how opposed I was to the idea of the military at first, and now I’m pretty excited about it. San Diego is a good place to be and we have possibilities of staying here. Regardless, in the Navy, you are at least assured of being by the ocean, which makes the posts much more inviting, in my opinion.
Making the jump from enlisted to officer in the Navy must be much easier than in the AF. It’s extremely competitive to get selected for OTS once you are on active duty. More so then when you are coming in fresh. It’s a nontrivial process that is far from guaranteed and is even further from guaranteed if you don’t have a technical degree. My Navy officer buddies say it’s the same in the Navy nowadays. I can also vouch for the statement someone made about it being hard to finish college once you stop. If he does enlist he will not be able to start back to college right away. He will be at least a year, maybe two, while he finishes tech training and bmt. And if he’s out at sea it gets even harder. Also, enlisted use of tuition assistance requires approval of theimmediatw supervisor and alot of the time they won’t approve a fresh recruit jumping right into school while they are still figuring out the military along with completing manadatory upgrade training.
Not to be a stick in the mud but if he still has two years to go on his degree, he’s 31, and he’s not even a citizen yet any quest to become on officer may be OBE anyway.
Don’t take this as a direct criticism but based on your posts it seems like you are making some hasty decisions for odd reasons. Joining the military just so you can crank out kids is kind of dubious in my book. There are jobs with insurance that don’t require your husband to risk his life.
It’s been a lifelong dream of his to be in the military. This is a far from hasty decision. And yes, maybe he won’t be able to be an officer at all. I’m going to ignore your “indirect criticism” and unsolicited opinion about cranking out kids because it doesn’t merit a response.
I retired from the Navy in 1990, so this may be somewhat out of date. Moving from enlisted to officer ranks in the Navy is very difficult. You can’t just apply or “submit a packet” simply because you have acquired a degree: there is no mechanism for that. While there are “mustang” programs, they are very competetive, select very few applicants, and are not just based on the fact that you may have a degree. Performance, time in service, and rank all are factors. If he goes in as an E-1, it may be ten years before he qualifies to even apply for an officer candidate program. This makes sense when you think about it: with all of those ROTC and academy graduates filling the officer ranks, why bother going through all the trouble of drawing from enlisted ranks? In 23 years, I probably knew of two men who managed to get through an LDO or other OC program, and only after repeated efforts to do so.
In his 30s, your husband is going to be an odd duck in boot camp and will find it somewhat difficult to fit in with his peers. Upon leaving boot camp, he will find himself working for someone much younger than he is and probably not as smart. While I don’t like to rain on someone’s parade, he would probably be better off satisfying his jones for military service by joining the reserves.
Keep in mind that there is going to be a great deal of separation, especially during the first few years. He’s going to have basic training in Illinois, then A school either in Illinois or somewhere else. You can’t go with him in basic, and you may not be able to join him while he’s in A school. Since he’s not going to have seniority, he may also not be able to choose his initial station. It’s easy to get San Diego, however.
That said, and I’m speaking from experience here, it’s difficult to deal with deployment if you have babies or young kids to care for. You’re essentially a single parent, so unless you have a good support system and people who can take your kids so you can work, it’s going to be difficult to manage a job and kids. The Navy does have child care, but there may be a waiting list to get in, and it may cost as much as you make, so it may not be worth it. (Not everything is free.)
I’m not trying to dissuade you, but there are a lot more considerations than just benefits. The military is not an easy lifestyle, and there is a lot about it that will affect you as the spouse. PM me if you have any more questions.
Good points, 20 years ago, the Navy had the second highest divorce rate for any profession after Police. I do not know today’s numbers. It also had a high rate of alcoholism. The long sea periods can be extremely rough on a young family. Though not as bad as the current situation for the army with the longer deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan.
OCS is not easy to get into as others have mentioned. What is he studying? He might want to talk to an officer recruiter about some options. I recall helping to place one young woman who was 3 years into her degree into a helicopter pilot officer program. I do not remember the details though. It may have been contingent on her completing her degree and happen to fit some odd quota the Navy had at the time.
The typical sea duty/shore duty rotation for junior enlisted used to be four years of sea duty followed by two years of shore duty, then back to sea. Each of those changes can be accompanied by a duty station change, which means packing up everything you own and moving to another state or coast or country. This means that you go back to the bottom of the military housing list, which (depending on the station) can mean a lengthy wait.
As one progresses up the rank structure, the rotation eases a bit. An E-6 was on about a 3/3 rotation, which is easier on families. Sea duty doesn’t mean four straight years on a ship, of course (or in my case, deployed with a Seabee battalion). The unit deploys for a cruise, which can be anywhere from six months on the light side to a year in the extreme. That’s followed by a period in “homeport” for training, refitting, repairs, etc. and just enough time for you to sort of become reacquainted with family, but not really, then you’re gone again for many months on end.
The Naval aviation community has it somewhat better, as they often can homestead somewhere which minimizes all the moving. I knew guys at Whidbey Island with the A-6 community who had been there nearly their entire careers. They deploy to an aircraft carrier and then rotate to the other end of the hangar for shore duty. Less family upheaval, more community roots. On the other hand, I moved (sits back to do some figgerin’) ten times in 23 years. Sea duty doesn’t necessarily mean being on a boat, either. Being stationed overseas counts as sea duty, but the Navy places limits on how large a family they will ship. More than two kids, forget about it.
I know how exciting this stuff can be when you first start looking at the possibilities but the fact of the matter is that it doesn’t sound like you guys have any idea what you want to do other than have insurance and have babies. You want the Navy but don’t want to move. You want officer but if not then enlisted is fine. All of your posts revolve around what YOU GUYS want from the Navy. Not about what HE (not you guys) want to do for/in the Navy. It appears to be about the benefits which is why I said that there are other jobs out there that have benefits that don’t require his life as payment.
Also, just curious, if being in the military was a lifelong dream of his then why is he just now trying enter at the ripe old age of 31?
Just as an FYI, I was 31 when I enlisted. I had my bachelor’s degree and could have come in as an Officer. I didn’t for two reasons. The first was that I had a misdemeanor on my record which would have meant a long delay while that was being reviewed, and the second was that I really didn’t think I could afford to come in as an Officer. (You know, buying the initial issue of clothing and paying for meals during training.) I have been enlisted for over ten years now and no chance of my becoming an Officer.
To those that are suggesting that the husband go in as an Officer, he may not be able to, because he is not a citizen yet. Also, the benefits in the Military are great. This is one of the things that we remind people of when they are considering enlisting. Granted, job skills and a desire to serve must weigh in there somewhere, but you will have a hard time beating the health care benefits the Military offers in a civilian job.
Because he just got his lawful permanent residency one month ago, that’s why. I said I was trying to keep the thread focused on the issue I started it about – not all of our reasons for and against. I’m not really that fucking excited. I’ve been pulled in kicking and screaming, but if I’m going to do it, I’m going to be positive about it. I’m doing it for my man, because I believe it is right for our family, and a whole lot of other reasons. Your initial snark and inaccurate comments without knowing anything about us makes me completely uninclined to continue anything further with you.
Thanks for that input. And yes I think it would be impossibl eto beat the health care benefits (which is far from the only reason we’re doing it, I guess I have to keep saying that). I’m not in the mood to justify myself to Cubsfan over there, but, newsflash, he’s been looking for a job, any job, in the civilian world and doesn’t have one. Let alone one with benefits.
