I am currently active duty and I will try and help you out here . I even joined “late” at 27 so I will shed some light on that as well. But, I will adress some statements first…
It is now 6 years for your first sea rotation for E4 and below. If you advance to say E5 you can submit paperwork to drop it to 36 months but it probably won’t happen. When I was an E4 I was under the original four year sea duty and when I made E5 I tried to drop time. I was already half way into my my fourth year so it would have been a scant six months and it did not happen.
During this first six years he will go on at least two deployments if not three. Count on three. Deployments can vary between six months to nine months depending in the ship and the mission and whats “going on world wide”.
If it sounds too good to be true then it is. The closest thing in the civillian world to our Navy system is an HMO.
You mean legal ALIEN residency? As in, he is NOT a US Citizen yet? If that is the case then officer is out of the question. You must be a citizen to be an officer. Period. If he enlists and becomes a citizen he can apply for an officer program after at least two years in. However, at the age he is at he will have to go for an LDO program or Warrant Officer program. The officer programs have age caps. The oldest ones are (EO) Engineering Officer (electrical enginner, mechanical engineer, etc) and medical which are 34 and IIRC 42. To go EO you have to go to one of 12 schools as decided by the Navy.
If he enlists now, he’ll do boot camp, then his A School. Depending on the length of the A School you may or may not be able to be with him. But, if he is not a citizen yet, then getting a rate in the Navy (I.e. your job specialty) that has a long A School will be a more technical and more sensitive job. So, he’s probably out for that especially since we are down sizing right now. But, he may have the option to choose where he goes to for his first duty station upon reenlistment. That’s something to ask, that way, he can ask for San Diego.
His age is also an issue of concern. He’s older, probably more mature, had work experience. The general Navy population comes from high school, freshly ripped from their momma’s teet, no real previous work experience. So, he will be totally alienated. I feel alienated a lot as it is as people of my rank are nine years my junior and still act like they are in high school due to the isolated community.
Thanks electronbee for the good info. Yes, I mentioned in my second post that he’s not a citizen yet. (I know it’s easy to miss all the info upthread.) It sounds more and more like officer is not a good option. In addition, we are leaning towards enlisted because he’s not actually planning to make a career out of the Navy (I wasn’t sure initially if he was or not, but he assures me he doesn’t want to stay in for the long term at this point. If he gets in and doesn’t want to get out, then we will talk.) But he still really wants to do it. I know he’s going to feel alienated. I just watched parts of “Carrier” with him. As I told someone in PM, I believe I would commit suicide (OK not really) if I was stuck on a ship for 6 months with those 18-year-olds…ack. But he rolls with the punches. He can endure a lot. Partly because nothing is as bad as what happened in his home country…
By the way, he has always had legal status in this country, lest someone misinterpret the legal term “lawful permanent resident.” He fled his birth country because of a coup/war. His father was a Colonel in the toppled regime. They dynamited his house. They tried to kill his dad. He was a pending asylee for years (the government delayed his interview for years and years) and then we terminated that process when we got married and we applied for his LPR based on marriage to me. He came here at 19 and tried to get in the Marines at 21. Of course he found out that as he didn’t have permanent residency yet, he couldn’t serve.
Having gone through officer recruiting for the Navy, I thought I would share my thoughts on the matter:
The officer route is most likely closed for your husband. First, as you mentioned, he is not a citizen. However, even if he was, he would not be eligible for most officer fields, save for maybe one or two due to age cutoffs. By the time he finished his degree, he would probably no longer be able to join those communities anyways…
But the real question, is why does he want to join now? If he goes in enlisted, he will be with a bunch of immature guys who are a few years over half his age. His salary will be basically non-existent (as an E-1 you basically make less than minimum wage per hour). Sure he will have health insurance, but many private plans are as good if not better.
Based on your long-term goals, I can only say that your family as a whole will probably be better off if he finishes college in two-years, and then looks for gainful employment. It will be easier on you and the kid(s), and financially you will probably be in a much better place than you will be if he goes into the Navy.
I haven’t read all the replies so maybe I’ll repeat something, sorry if I do.
FINISH THE DEGREE! Always, no matter what it is. Unless people are starving or homeless.
As former Navy enlisted there’s a few things I might add.
Officer is better than enlisted, just is. Better pay, better housing, more privileges, more opportunity. The old… “enlist and you’ll get into OCS later” is one of the oldest recruiter dodges ever. I’m glad yours is being more honest. But really, aren’t there separate recruiting processes for officers? The guy down at the mall is for snagging enlistees.
Lack of citizenship is bound to limit choices, in both enlisted and officer. What is his recruiter telling you about that?
What is his degree and why is considering the military?
I just remembered that an option was being thrown around for a two-year enlistment deal with two-years of reserves afterwards. This was several years ago and I do not know if it ever came to fruition. Since, the main goal of that thought was to build up the ranks ASAP.
There are also other options such as TAR: Temporary Active Reserve. You are a Reservist but you are active from the get-go. There are different billeting procedures and what not involved in this. I had a friend of mine in A-School that was one and his whole situation concerning how he chose his orders and where he could go were different that mine. No radically different but different enough. The Navy recruiters will not tell you any of this unless there is some incentive for them and they main feign ignorance on the TAR program. You guys are in San Diego so finding a Reservist should be easy: look for a VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars).
I would suggest that he go into the Air Community. There is a higher chance that he will get placed on a shore billet out of boot camp. Definitely go air.
I am speaking from the Army perspective, so some of the things may not be 100% applicable to the Navy, but I work closely with Navy Recruiters, so I am pretty sure of what I am stating. The OP’s husband is disqualified from joining as an Officer. He will need to complete his citizenship before that becomes possible.
There is not a separate Recruiter for Officers. The same Recruiters that put in enlisted soldiers and seamen, also put Officers in these branches.
At least in the Army, tesseract, your husband will not go in as an E-1. Because of his college, he may even go in as an E-3. I am sure that he could get in as an E-3 in the Army, not 100% on the Navy. As to the concerns about age, yes he will be older than most of the people he goes to boot camp with. That is not such a big deal, especially since he will most likely report to boot camp in the fall or early winter. The high school kids will be back in school and there will be several people at least close to his age. When I got to AIT (job school), my age really didn’t make a difference. Granted in the barracks at night, there were some young 'uns making noise and being all excited about the prospects of alcohol over the weekend, but I did relate better with the Drill Sergeants and the course instructors than most of the other students. There were times when I would be able to talk to the Drill Sergeants after classes about normal things like baseball, married life, and world politics. I could do this because I wasn’t involved in the panty raids that most guys were getting into. Also, being older than most and coming in as an E-4, the Non-commissioned Officers had respect for me and knew that I wouldn’t cause any trouble.
When you husband gets to his unit, he will be able to interact with people of all ages and backgrounds. As long as he has respect for his leadership, he will be fine. I didn’t have trouble working with people younger than me for the fact that I had done it in the civilian world. Also, when quitting time came, I had a wife to go home to and didn’t do much of the bar-hopping that the younger guys did.
I knew some TARs. They had a pretty cushy deal as far as I could tell. They spent their entire careers at one or two duty stations: places like South Weymouth, MA and Willow Grove, PA. Not exactly hotbeds of military activity. A disproportionate number of these folks had children or other family members with serious medical issues.
I’ve long understood that the US armed forces are willing to accept foreign recruits and such service is very beneficial to a future application for citizenship. Have I been mistaken?
Quartz: Just slightly mistaken. To enlist into the US Armed Forces, one must be either a citizen or have already been admitted into the country as a lawful permanent resident (aka “green card holder”). IIRC, there’s also a limit to the number of foreign nationals that can be in the military.
SSG Schwartz is correct about coming in up to an E3 with his college experience. This will help with advancement as he won’t have to wait almost four years to take the E4 exam. And, he may even get some enlistment money as well.
Also, since SSG is a recruiter he may be able to fill in the details on where to enlist. In the Navy, you basically got more money the farther you were from a Navy station since the influence was less and all districts want people. So, maybe enlisting farther away will yield a sign-on bonus whereas being in San Diego may yield none.
One other thing to be aware of is this: almost all single sailors request San Diego as their duty station or homeport. Almost NOBODY requests Norfolk, Virginia. The Navy will consider the request only briefly before sending the man to wherever there is a needed billet to fill. The duty station request forms are commonly referred to “Dream Sheets”.
As a result, the large Navy fleets based in the Norfolk area have more than a few disgruntled Californians among their ranks.
I’m not in the military, and don’t know much about the Navy. However, my brother’s in the Air Force, joined 13ish years ago when he was 26. He did report some awkwardness at bootcamp with the 18 year olds - namely, they thought he was some sort of special ops that was observing bootcamp because he was older and didn’t get yelled at as much. In reality, he just wasn’t, as he characterized it, “stupid.” To him, it was a role to play, and he played it. You were told to do something, you did it. You were called a moron (or whatever); you sucked it up and took it. According to him, the idiot teenagers couldn’t (or wouldn’t) do that, talked back, and so had superiors in their faces all the time. His commanding officers also knew the game. They knew he was older and knew he wouldn’t be a problem - one told him “You don’t get in my face; I won’t get in yours.” He was all, “that’s just fine with me!”
I know that the AF is different, but I do have to say that I think it’s unrealistic to believe that you won’t have to move. In my bro’s experience, this has been likely instead of rare - he’s moved (cross-country, coupla times) 4+ times in his 13 years. Just sayin’, is all.
Thanks for additional input. I’ve PM’d some of the folks in here also. We’re thinking everything through and still leaning pretty strongly toward him enlisting now. I want to look into that TAR option too.
I don’t know if I’m doing this incorrectly, but the salary is sure looking a lot better than what he can make in the private sector. If he had a job that is. Currently he can make 0 in the private sector, as he can’t find a job. As an E-3 he would get $1649 per month (before taxes, so about 1491 by my calculations), plus the 1900 BAH for San Diego. If we were in Norfolk the BAH would be around 1600. Plus we wouldn’t have to pay health insurance, which for our family was about $400 per month when we had a job with benefits. So assuming we were in Norfolk or San Diego, (I know – let’s assume), he would be taking home something between 3391 and 3091 per month. Add to that subsistence allowance - $323/month and my take-home of say $1000 and I’d say we’d be fine. I just called the recruiter and also did a “Chat with a Navy expert” on the web. Sounds like you get the same pay, allowances, and GI Bill as well as same enlistment time requirement - 4 and 4. Recruiter said TAR is now called something else – I thought he said STS - phone was breaking up - but I can’t find that on the web. After my husband takes the ASVAB he can look at what “STS”(?) jobs are available and if there are any, he could do that. Apparently it is more likely he’d have shore duty and more likely he’d be in San Diego but again no guarantees. I dunno, it’s looking not so bad.
In my PM to a few folks I explained that it is more than about money - it’s a dream of my husband’s that I do not want to crush. I am willing to make a lot of sacrifices to make him happy or, conversely, so he can avoid regretting that he didn’t do it his whole life. If that makes sense. Anyway.
Are you asking why the BAH in SD is more than Norfolk? If so, it’s only due to housing costs being more out there than in Norfolk. Any BAH rate you ever see will be just that–the housing allowance. No BAS rate or anything else will ever be included; it will always be a separate rate. It’s simply coincidence that the margin between those two BAH rates is around that of the BAS rate.
BTW, “Top Gun” school, the one in the movie at Miramar, is very close to the coast in San Diego. Not in the middle of the desert. Like Tom says, it has since moved.
But tesseract, you should certainly divest yourself of the idea that you’ll be “assured” of being near a coast. There are tons of places the Navy can send you that are nowhere near it. It may be likely, but by no means certain, and much of it will depend on what his job winds up being. If both you and he decide location is an overriding factor, then do your homework (e.g., something on ships? Probably near a coast. Aviation? Probably near a coast. Yeoman [admin]? Could be anywhere). Otherwise, if they push him to be a weather guesser, and he winds up at NAS Fallon (very much in the middle of the desert), then you won’t have much room to complain.