Maybe, but the US runs around trying to get people convicted of spying on them in other countries released all the time. Hell, for that matter, when Yosef Amit, who spied on Israel for the US, was convicted, the US tried, unsuccessfully, to get him released, even almost exchanging him for Pollard.
Or, look at Shakil Afridi, the Pakistani doctor who helped the US find Bin Laden and was convicted by Pakistan. We’ve been pushing for his relief, even cutting aid to Pakistan to try to do it.
Why should the US release a US citizen who committed espionage against his own country? Your country’s government played fast and loose with the Law of Return (presumably) to grant him Israeli citizenship so, in reality, that’s a non-starter as far as the US government is concerned.
Why would you Israelis appreciate him being released? Let’s run down the short obvious list:
[ul][li]He spied for Israel. Big whoop. Of course Israel would appreciate someone in their pay no longer being punished. Yet another non-starter.[/li][li]He’s an Israeli citizen. Well, let me go out on a limb here and say something shocking: Not really. Oh, yeah. Your government rewarded (paid) him with citizenship so as to have a better claim on why they’re haranguing the US government for this particular SOB. But I’m wondering what others who had to go through a lot of grief to get to Israel so they could become citizens under the Law of Return feel about this.[/li][li]He’s Jewish. This board’s already seen a couple of people who already believe that each and every Jew is automatically a citizen of Israel and that citizenship takes priority over any other loyalty said Jews have. Why on Earth would your government or people want to legitimize that insane view with prominent proof.[/li][li]The US government and/or people want the SOB in jail and that’s good enough to want him out. I really hope this one doesn’t have traction.[/ul][/li]
You know what a fair number of Americans would appreciate? Yep, that American Pollard dying in an American prison without living the life of a hero in the country for which he betrayed his own. You and/or your countrymen can shout all you want that Pollard’s a citizen of Israel. He wasn’t such when he committed his crimes and it doesn’t matter that your government gifted him (likely illegally) with such citizenship while he’s in prison. What matters is that he’s a citizen of the United States, he committed crimes against the United States, he got caught, he got tried, he got convicted, he got sentenced, and he’s serving his sentence. The US government isn’t doing anything wrong with keeping that bastard in prison.
It would make the families of most criminals awful happy if a convict was released. It would actually save any government money to do that. Why don’t we all do it?
Justice.
The other example you point out is fine, but let’s cut the crap here. This man’s crime wasn’t espionage, it was embarrassing the Pakistani government.
The man was a citizen of Pakistan who provided the US government with information letting them conduct a covert mission in Pakistan. How is that not espionage?
They won’t let me in, I converted Conservative. 
So when you posted that bullshit about how Israel sent Pollard to spy here (as opposed to the reality of him being an American who volunteered to sell out his country to Israel and other countries in return for $$$, you were just paraphrasing general ignorance of the situation in Israel, as opposed to personal ignorance?
How about shedding light from an Israeli and/or personal perspective on the following questions I asked earlier:
“How do Israelis feel when when Palestinians convicted of crimes against Israelis are released from Israeli jails and get uproarious welcomes back home?”
“Now imagine Pollard being released and flown back to Israel. It’s highly likely he’ll get a hero’s welcome too and Netanyahu may not be able to resist giving him a big sloppy hug and kiss. How do you think Americans will feel about that?”
Your prisoner releases, foolish as they are (“we’ll trade a couple hundred badasses for our one guy you’re holding captive”) at least get you something tangible in return. But we’re supposed to give you Pollard, so he can get a big welcome (and a hefty savings account) in Israel, just because it’ll make Israelis “happy”?
Screw that.
Beats the hell out of people asking Israel to release Palestinians who have committed murder.
But Israel does this on a fairly consistent basis, as part of negotiations. In fact, a large prisoner release was supposed to happen right now before the talks broke down: http://time.com/53295/israeli-foreign-minister-palestinian-prisoner-release-is-off/
It might be a cultural thing because Israel has always seemed pretty blasé about releasing Palestinian terrorists, in a way that would be unconscionable to an American public. (Not to say there aren’t protests when it happens, but they usually go through with it, even when the prisoner was convicted of murder.) Can you imagine the outcry if the President just emptied Guantanamo as part of negotiations?
Perhaps it’s just more accepted a part of Israeli politics. (Not that I agree with it, personally.)
That is what made me think of it.
Perhaps it is a reason they think we should parole the guy, he didn’t even kill anyone.
To be fair, we don’t know if he sold any names to the other countries he was spying for, but as far as I know he had access to technical information, not the names of agents.
What crime did he commit against Pakistan? What secret information did he give to the US?
This is like saying, “I just ate a sandwich consisting of a round patty made with ground beef upon which cheese and bacon is placed. How is that not a hot dog?”
The location of Bin Laden? Look, I don’t know. He gave information to US Intelligence. The Pakistani government didn’t like it and threw him in prison. We think what he did was good. The Pakistanis don’t. That really was the only place I was going with that.
I doubt that either government is willing to give out details on that.
=)
Oh c’mon, if an FBI agent gave out the locations of a number of defectors to Putin we wouldn’t claim he was a traitor.
Giving the location (and presumably the names) of defecting Russians to Putin? Absolutely that would be a traitorous act – I can’t even think of another term to call it. Maybe “treasonous”?
I don’t want to pester Alessan too much (I’m grateful he participates in threads like this one) but I have to ask what this means exactly. Ethnic cleansing? Pushing a couple million Arabs into Jordan and Egypt? That sounds like a terribly hard thing to do with long-term nasty consequences. I mean, how do you even move that many people?
Is there some other quick, effective and terminal solution that I’m missing? Is this a fringe right-wing Israeli position or more mainstream? It seems kind of scary if things have gotten this bad.
Given that “terminal” is a synonym for “final,” I’d be absolutely astounded if the, er, obvious answer here would cross the mind of any Israeli, right wing or not, Alessan’s personal view or not. That’s some staring-too-long-into-the-abyss shit right there, and makes me ready to wash my hands of the damn place, again if I’m reading this correctly and such a view is indeed tolerated – right wing or not, any particular poster’s individual view or not. If OTOH I’m misreading, I’d offer my sincere apology, cause it’s something I genuinely hope is not true.
Perhaps “terminal” is the wrong word.
There is a small minority of Jewish Israelis who still believe in the idea of “transfer”, of forcing Palestinians (and according to some, Israeli Arabs as well) out of their homes and into neighboring countries. I don’t know what percentage of the population thinks that way - I don’t have any poll data - but I wouldn’t put it at higher than 10%. This number is obviously higher in the settler movement. There also aren’t any politicians who openly support forced transfer, as the last one to do so was barred from elective office due to racism. There are certain right-wing politicians who have stated that they would support paying Palestinians to voluntarily leave the country, though.
That said - and returning to my original point - I do think that the close U.S./Israeli relationship has served to moderate Israeli actions. Israelis have a strong fight or flight instinct, only without the “flight” part, and we tend to act in an excessive manner when we feel our back is to the wall. The belief that the U.S. “has our back” and won’t let us fall has probably kept Israel from doing any number of stupid things over the years. In short, and it shames me to admit it, the worse thing America can do to the Palestinians is withdraw its support for Israel.
Spying strikes me as something that every country does, regardless of the fact it is always considered wrong, particularly spying on friendly nations.
I am not surprised that America has spies in Israel (I would be very surprised if it did not). The only surprising part of this affair is the vehemence of American outrage that they could be subject to spying.