Journals and Privicy.

Great Debates
1

I think this will be in the PIT in a hurry but I have always wanted to start a GD thread.

Why is, or should an entry into an on-line journal be considered protected from the so called fair use clause?

I did a search and did not find this subject covered.

::: I feel that if ANYONE knows the same thing I know, it is no longer a secret. ::

If I write it down in a place on the internet where a password or some special permission is not required to view it, is it -----

a) My right to claim that my writing is personal and not to be C&P’ed as in fair use ?

b) That permission must / should be asked first?

c) And if it is within an group, the SDMB for example.

c[sub]1[/sub]) A person lets it be known that they have an on-line journal and people from the SDMB go to view it and someone C&P’s a portion and uses it in a post. Is the poster of the C&P in the wrong?

  1. legally?
  2. morally? (in your opinion?)
  3. Would you do it if it was not illegal?

IMO, I feel that ANYONE who posts anything on the internet, that they feel is private and should not be repeated are nuts but if they do, they need to put it under lock and key, so to speak, and to not EXPECT it to be treated as some professional or personal safe place. Hackers can get to anything I hear.

I am actually talking about something I have seen that was not in bad taste. It actually was well done and not derogatory in any manner except it did come from an on-line journal and was in a place that the one who wrote it originally would see it. It was not an attempt cause trouble IMO. It was not taken off to some far place nor was it used to vilify the original journal poster. All this aside…

My problem is the journal poster thinking have any right to claim that fair use does not apply, the person who did it needed to ask permission first and in general it was a wrong thing to do.???

I do not think they have any right to cry foul.

If you write it and put it up. Without exact disclaimers, do you even have the right to fuss about fair use?
I know this type of thing is dealt with here all the time on too large a C&P from a site but in relation to personal on-line journals, what say you?

If you have or had an on-line journal that was open or partially open to anybody who wandered by and especially if you had in the past posted that you had this journal, would you expect prior permission to be asked before excerpts could be used?

2

Legally - I would think that you shouldn’t copy it word for word, but you can summarize it in your words.
Morally - if a person has an online diary of some sort, and lets it publicly be known at a message board, or joins a “message board” group of some kind with other people from the message board, then it is not “wrong” for you to share at the message board what was said in the Live Journal. It might not be very polite, but impolite and immoral are two different things.

(Disclaimer - as SDMB administrator I will specify that we do not want people starting fights at the SDMB based on what someone said in their Live Journal.)

In any case, one should not post in a public internet diary material that one would not want certain persons to see. I think “caveat scriptor” would apply in this case.

3

Also - If I had a public journal, I would not want people publishing large excerpts word for word, but I would expect people to feel free to use it in accordance with the fair use standard.

4

If there are any details Gus, you were wise not to post them. I hope others will be wise too.

If I had posted something in a live journal I think it’s generally fair game. It is out there for anyone to look at. But if someone knew I was a Doper and posted it here without asking, I’d feel that person was presumptuous and rude.

5

For the record, I did not do this. It was just something I saw and was wondering about it?

I get in enough trouble without doing that. :eek:

Question. I thought C&P of a paragraph or so was okay as that seems to be the norm for discussions of news stories and the like. So, in your opinion Arnold, you feel that that any quoting would be in at least, bad taste?

If quoting is not good, then how can a charge of “I did not say that.” be dealt with?

Example: ( all points are fictitious.)

GusNSpot and hawthorne both post to SDMB GD forum. hawthorne has an LJ and Gus copies 1 paragraph of a 5 paragraph entry hawthorne has made about hawthorne’s dislike of Strawberry Rhubarb Pie. I use that as a springboard for a GD thread about which kind of strange pie is the best knowing full well that hawthorne will see it and I have even noted where I got the quote from.

Do I owe hawthorne, a permission request first?

You see, it was not about some really personal and embarrassing thing. :: Well I don’t know how he really feels about Strawberry Rhubarb Pie but it is not an obvious strong matter of personal angst to hawthorne. IMO :::

Does this fictitious and made up account explain better the question I am asking?

6

You can use copyrighted material as long as your use falls under the “fair use” clause:

Section 107 of the Copyright Law

7

GusNSpot - If hawthorne wanted his dislike of strawberry rhubarb pie to be known at the SDMB he would presumably have posted it at the SDMB. On the other hand if hawthorne has a public[sup]1[/sup] LiveJournal, and invites other SDMB members to read his LiveJournal (e.g. by mentioning his LiveJournal at the SDMB or by joining an SDMB LiveJournal “group”), then I don’t think that hawthorne has a legitimate gripe when the information at the LiveJournal shows up at the SDMB.

If GusNSpot starts an IMHO thread saying “hawthorne said in his LiveJournal that he hates strawberry rhubarb pie. I love it. What do you guys think?” then I don’t see any problem with it (either morally, or regarding SDMB policy.)

If GusNSpot starts a BBQ Pit thread saying “That (bleep) hawthorne is such a (bleep) (bleep) for not liking strawberry rhubarb pie. He can kiss my (bleep).” then I think it is not morally wrong of you to make the information public (hawthorne has already done so in his public LiveJournal), but as an SDMB moderator I will tell you “don’t bring LiveJournal fights over to the SDMB.”

FTR I like strawberry rhubarb pie.

Quoting directly vs. paraphrasing - one of the ATMB FAQ sticky threads contains our guidelines for direct C&P from another site. In general I think it’s better to avoid quoting directly and instead try to paraphrase accurately. Plus the effort is good for you to learn how to summarize an argument, and it’ll put hair on your chest.

[sup]1[/sup]By public, I mean not password-protected and visible to anyone with an Internet connection.
P.S. N/W Arkansas? I went to Eureka Springs 3 years ago. Beautiful town. I imagine you’ve been there also.

8

Eureka Springs is a great place to visit. And the hills and streets are a blast on a motorcycle. It is about an hour and 15 minutes from where I am and that is because of a small city and very crooked roads, not so much the distance. We go over several times a year and it is always a lot of fun.

Be well and warm

Gus

P.S. Appreciate the response to my thread. :slight_smile:

9

I just took a class on media ethics and law where this subject came up, and while there are no laws specifically relating to copyrights/ fair use in the form of message boards and internet journals, it all falls under the general copyright legislation.

When you write an entry into your journal, for all intents and purposes you have set it ‘in a fixed form’ and it is henceforth copyrighted as your work. Should someone C&P the entire work or a vast portion of it without your permission and without referrencing it correctly, you would have a right to bring them to court, should you so choose, for copyright infringement, but the main problem there would be jurisdiction.

A good resource for copyright law and how it applies to the internet can be found at LawGirl.com