Joyce's Ulysses....keeping Aspirin in business

Why oh why is this book so goddamned tedious??? I’ve gotten through about 75 pages (only the beginning–I’ve just met Leopold Bloom), and I’m seriously losing patience. I was motivated, nay, excited when I started it the other day, but I’m rapidly losing interest…in part because the book requires so much goddamned mental energy to read. Every page of action and dialogue is preceded and followed by four pages of this “stream of consciousness” crap-OLA. I’m opening this thread up both for rants on “the greatest English novel of the 20th century,” and for anyone who would like to inspire me or give me some concrete reason to keep giving myself these massive headaches.
I know that a thread meant to draw teed-off rants probably belongs in the Pit, and since this is kind of a spontaneous and specific issue it might belong in MPSISMS, but I came here because GD is far and away the most, um…erudite forum on the board. So, what do you guys think?


The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.

I bought a copy twenty years ago and started reading it then. Its still on my shelf, right where I can reach it.

I’m up to page 315, I think they are in a bar talking about chickens or something.

I saw recently that “Ulysses” had been translated into Chinese.

The article went on to say something to the effect that “the translators were well aware of their limitations, however, and there is not currently any talk of attempting to translate ‘Finnegan’s Wake’ into Chinese.”

At least “Ulysses” uses English words.

Some of Joyce’s short stories left me scratching my head wondering, “Huh?” I’ve browsed thru his two “master works,” but I’ve never had the stomach (or three available years) to plow thru.

Good Luck!

Don’t worry, once you get to the part about me it picks up


Often wrong… NEVER in doubt

“Ulysses” and “Finnegans Wake” are two examples of books that should be sold in bookstores under a sign reading, “Classic Literary Works That Nobody Actually Reads But Everybody Loves and Knows All About.” You’d find most Faulkner there, too.

When I finished Ulysses (fortunately, I’ve forgotten most of it) I thought of the Emperors New Clothes. I think Jimmy put one over on us.

I couldn’t get through Finnegan"s wake.

“Three quarks for Muster Mark.”

You have my sympathies, Rousseau.


A seminar on time travel will be held two weeks ago.

Rousseau:

In a serious attempt to answer your question, I can offer you little encouragement. I read the damn thing in a Modern Irish Literature class, and found it incredibly tedious.

A strong knowledge in ancient Greek mythology and tragedy is helpful in understanding Joyce’s parallels. I’d recommend Edith Hamilton’s Mythology, for starters if you are unfamiliar in this area.

I hate to say this, but get the CliffNotes, read the chapter description, then read THAT chapter as Joyce wrote it. It may be a little easier to appreciate if you know what your looking for before you have to slog through Joyce’s prose.

That being said the primary advantage to reading Ulysses is the bragging rights.

Man, this book sucks.

I didn’t have to read it in school, but after seeing it at or near the top of many ‘best book of the century’ lists I tried to read it. Impossible. The book will not be read. It is exactly the emperor’s new clothes.

I found this really strange, as generally whenever I read one of the ‘classic’ great books I love it and understand why it is so well regarded (with the exception of every word Charles Dickens ever wrote, the two-bit hack). Whenever I see it on a list topping novels that are actually readable and quite good (For Whom the Bell Tolls, Catch-22, Slaughterhouse 5 all spring immediately to mind) I confront an almost insurmountable urge to start spitting and throwing things.

Still, I may have to give it another go someday. I mean, there has to be something to it, right? Right?

You know, Ulysses has been banned for obscenity. I really wonder about the kind of people that would get off on that sort of thing.

I guess my first comment would be that if you don’t enjoy Ulysses, then don’t read it. I hate the notion that people feel compelled to slog through something they don’t enjoy simply because some other arbitrary group has decided that the work in question is “important”. If it’s assigned reading for an class, that’s another issue, but generally speaking, if you aren’t enjoying it, stop.

That being said, I should point out that being challenging or difficult does not necessarily place a book outside the realm of enjoyable reading for me (Ulysses is certainly one example of a work I was challenged by but have enjoyed each time I’ve read it; Pynchon’s Gravity’s Rainbow is another). The key for me is whether the effort expended is repaid by the enjoyment, education, or other reward I derive from the work. And yes, I have genuinely enjoyed Ulysses each time I’ve read it – some parts more than others, of course. There are incidents, phrases, etc. that still float around in my head at times.

I mean no disrespect or opprobium toward the original poster or anyone else, but most of the people I’ve known who’ve disliked Ulysses (and Joyce in general) have shared the trait of being unable or unwilling to let things they didn’t immediately “get” slide by without worrying about it. I think it’s essential to get any enjoyment from Joyce that you be willing to let a whole lot of the allusions, references, etc. sail past you. If you find you’re enjoying it enough to invest the effort, get a copy of Stuart Gilbert’s James Joyce’s Ulysses to refer to.

A couple of additional points to consider:
[ul][li]With Joyce in particular, you have to hear the words – not just recognizing them as they flow past on paper, but making an effort to say the words and be aware of the sounds they make. Important in Ulysses, the only way to begin to approach Finnegan’s Wake (which proved to be too much even for me).[/li][li]While literary theorists can debate the issue forever, my personal belief is that written communication is more like the score of a musical work than an recording of that work, and that just as some conductors and orchestras are better suited to certain works than others, the same is true of readers and literary works. If a particular combination of reader and text doesn’t work, it may be no reflection on either the text or the reader, but on their unsuitability for one another. And of course, simply because you’re unable to perform the text to your own satisfaction at one point in your life doesn’t mean you won’t return to it at a later time – or that a piece that works for you now won’t cease to be congenial later in your life.[/li]Without contradicting the preceding point, I will say that the net effect of recorded music, television, and movies in this century has been a decline in the willingness and ability of many readers to construct or perform the text for themselves. There’s no laugh track, no background music to serve as cues for how we’re to respond to the words on the page – we have to determine that for ourselves, and many of us have come to depend on those cues so much that we’re lost without them. Many readers expect books to dictate our intellectual and emotional reactions to them in the same heavy-handed way that most of our TV shows and movies these days do. That’s particularly hard to overcome in the case of an early Modernist like Joyce.[/ul]

And Proust.

“You know, Ulysses has been banned for obscenity.”
Er, it was banned, yes. Along with such other filth as, say, Catcher In The Rye. The ruling which banned it was overturned in a rather landmark case. Thank goodness that whole pious and moral part of our history is over with for the most part.
And I’d have to second the bragging rights comment up above-it’s a hard book to read. Come on though, ease of reading isn’t the only virtue in literature, James Joyce had an incredible, and inimitable style-the poetry of his words should make the thing worth reading even if it is hard.

I tried to get through Ulysses a few years ago and never made it past page five . . . Life’s too short; and I’m as big an egghead as anyone here!

I also made a valiant effort to read Wm. Saroyan’s Human Comedy last week . . . To quote Mrs. Parker, “This is not a book to be tossed aside lightly. It is to be thrown with great force.”

On the other hand, I can’t get enough of Booth Tarkington or Wm. Dean Howells!

I thought, having made it through War and Peace and Les Miserables, Ulysses would be a piece of cake. Bitter laugh. I made it to around page forty before I realized I was reading it not because I was enjoying it or getting anything out of it, but simply to prove that I could. Well, I can poke myself in the eye with a sharp stick, too, but why? I put it down and never looked back. As a book, it makes a great coaster.


Jodi

Fiat Justitia

quote:

“Every page of action and dialogue is preceded and followed by four pages of this “stream of consciousness” crap-OLA.”

Ummm. The stream of consciousness crapola is the whole point. Joyce was playing with narration and language. And as for plot and action–you do know that the whole book covers the course of only one day, don’t you? Yes, it does require mental energy. Why is that a bad thing?

Well, I’m as smart as the average fellow, and I’ve decided (after a couple of attempts) that the only way I could finish Ulysses or Finnegan’s Wake would be while/after reading a commentary on the novel. Maybe when I retire!

But I’ve read a short story by him (Grace) which was eminently readable.

I hear Campbell’s Skeleton Key to Finnegan’s Wake is pretty good. I’m stalled out on page 40-something of FW. It’s interesting, but it takes forever to cipher out the meaning of a paragraph; it’s like reading difficult modern poetry. I can take FM in small doses (I think I was going along at a clip of 5 pages a day for a while), but reading large chunks of it is a bit rough. When I was in HS I wrote a small piece very similar to his style (before I had even heard of him); I combined english, spanish, a little russian, used words for their connotations and sound more than their meaning, etc. I couldn’t even figure out half of what I was trying to say when I reread it a year later! So that was my first and last attempt at Modernist prose.

Rackensack writes:

Absolutely! That’s why humanity has finally invented the smiley! :slight_smile: When this new punctuation form reaches it’s zenith, all the classics will surely be expanded to include them; when the smiley version of Ulysses comes out, I’ll be the first one in line at the bookstore :p.

Joyce is great!

I’m reading Dubliners right now, for Latin OAC class. We’re comparing it to Ovid’s Metamorphesis. Joyce lifted material from all 15 stories in Dubliners from the 15 books of Metamorphesis. I’m studying story nine of Dubliners, titled Counterparts, which directly corresponds to book IX of Metamorphesis. Interesting stuff, really.

Studi


When I grow up, I want to be the Minister of Silly Walks.

I won’t tell people they must like “Ulysses.” If you’ve read it and concluded that it’s garbage, well… all I can say is, I’m sorry you feel that way, but it’s a free country, and opinions vary.

As for me, I’ve read all of Joyce’s short stories, as well as “Portrait of the Artists as a Young Man,” so I can tell you that he was quite capable of writing conventional literature. So, don’t kid yourself: “Ulysses” may or may not be a brilliant work of literature, but it is NOT “the Emperor’s new clothes.” James Joyce knew exactly what he was doing at all times, and you may be assured that every paragraph, every sentence, every word in “Ulysses” is EXACTLY the way he wanted it.

Now James Joyce, whom I love (except for “Finnegans Wake,” which I’ve attempted to read several times, but which I always toss away in disgust and despair after 10 minutes), has much in common with composer John Cage (whom I hate). It’s TEMPTING to listen to one of Cage’s randomly-written pieces, and say “this is a joke! It’s a put-on! He’s making up crap, and the stupid critics love it.” It’s equally tempting to say the same of a work like “Finnegans Wake.” But… have you ever considered how LONG it takes to write a symphony by casting dice to find each note? Do you realize how LONG it takes to write a concerto by consulting random pages of the I Ching for notes? That’s what John Cage did! Well, I happen to think the end result was invariably HORRIBLE music. But don’t kid yourself: It was MUCH easier for Mozart to write music conventionally than it was for Cage to write random music. So, if Cage put in that kind of time and effort, he obviously was NOT a jokester or a put-on artist. He was a serious (though very bad and utterly untalented) composer.

Similarly, do you realize how LONG it took James Joyce to write “Ulysses” and “Finnegans Wake”? Both books took over ten years to write, and neither made a lot of money. IF Joyce were a fraud or put-on artists, don’t you think he could have slapped together 800 pages of disjointed nonsense a LOT faster than that?

No… you may love Joyce or you may hate him, but EVERYTHING he did was done for a purpose.