I am saying that the modifications erased most of my objections, although I think the law was poorly thought out and horribly written to begin with and they probably should have started over.
I am quite aware that the federal challenge involves preemption. I am pointing out that this whole palaver may have been a big waste of time, not that the federal challenge indicates that the law is bad, or whatever.
I must look like a white drug dealer then because I have been pulled over for every niggling thing possible.
The law was thought out and written perfectly. It only seems like they should start over if their original intent was to come up with a way of dealing with the problems of illegal immigration.
If instead you view it as a big fuck you to non-Republicans, with the sole intent to give guys like LonesomePolecat a raging boner, it worked perfectly.
As they say, there is no logical debate concerning this law because there was no logic applied to the law. A group of immigration specialists didn’t spend a month crafting what they think is the best possible solution to a complex problem. A couple of assholes, probably drunk, realized this would really piss off a lot of people they hate, and excite the people they like, all the while being completely pointless.
The whole exercise is a waste of time if someone puts a billboard on the southern side of the boarded that says, "If a cop asks about your status, scoff and say, ‘I’m a citizen.’ "
Can you read? I said that immigration suspicion was not the cause for pulling them over. But once they are in the hands of the cops , the rules change. I would suggest they will not treat all the people( the ones already pulled over) the same. The fact is they would not. That is when racism would rear its ugly head. To argue that at that point, they should ask for papers from everybody , is nice. but it would not happen.
The cold hard fact is this law will be used on south of the border types. I would like to see it used on everybody they pull over, then the noise made by whites would end the law rapidly. Whites ,especially wealthy ones do not put up,with police annoyances. As I pointed out, many people of all colors and nationalities do not even posses proof that would be valid. Let them spend a weekend in jail while INS gets around to verifying them.
I’m saying they have every motive to characterize law enforcement’s action as improper.
So your complaint amounts to, “They haven’t actually done anything wrong yet, but they will. I just know it.”
And here is where Unregistered Bull comes back and sas, “Yeah, OK, I might have been off base on that one.”
Right?
Ha! Ha! I slay myself with the comedy.
Why are you suggesting that would not happen? Our county (Prince William, Virginia, rather well known in this debate) checks the citizenship status of everyone arrested. That was a policy implemented at the request of the police department who wanted to comply with county ordinances but did not want to get sued.
Which is quite different from demanding proof of immigration status from everyone pulled over for a traffic violation. The public will tolerate all sorts of things when it is directed at those under arrest, because they don’t see it inconveniencing themselves. Get back to me when they start detaining white middle-class voters who can’t prove their citizenship after they get pulled over for having a tail light out.
Your own complaint amounts to “Plain intent and established history of conduct are irrelevant, only the narrowest possible interpretation of the text is real.” Is it really not clear to you how that can be unconvincing?
All this good conversation, and then, bingo, right back to “can’t prove their citizenship.”
Eevryone will get asked. Those that claim citizenship and don’t have any indicia otherwise are finished at that point.
And because I’m just that good, let me predict the next couple of posts:
“What indicia? Brown skin!!”
No, I have provided examples of acceptable indictation that are race-neutral.
Some of us have less faith in the integrity of law enforcement. As soon as the illegal immigrant community figures out that claiming citizenship is a free pass when challenged, law enforcement will find a way to detain those they want to believe are illegal. Otherwise, the law is gutted by this huge and rather obvious loophole, and believing that illegal immigrants are too stupid or afraid to exploit it seriously underestimates the determination of people who have risked death to get here.
Accent. If someone has an obvious accent that should be sufficient reason to verify citizenship status.
I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but if you are serious, what would happen to a person with an obvious accent who claims they are a US citizen, but is not carrying any documentation that proves it??
And vice versa. Again, what’s your point?
If a person doesn’t provide proof then the officer uses a computer to verify it. Requiring documentation is not an undue burden for a new citizen. We are already required to carry a license and proof of insurance. If there is a weakness in that process it is up to the Federal Government to correct it.
The Arizona law is apparently aimed at Latinos. The entire controversy is about that . But you hand wave it away, because it has not been used yet. Are you arguing it has to actually be used against people unfairly to have proof. Therefore we can not criticize a law as it is being written. We can not discuss it as it goes through the legal system or the court of public opinion. When Judge Bolton gutted some of the provisions of the law, I suppose the states lawyers said she could not rule because it was not yet implemented?
That was pretty much Bolton’s decision. I know what the law is aimed at and it is wrong. You can not do that.
That is a bad argument again.
How about an old citizen? Many people who were born here have obvious accents.
And you’re going to miss people like me who don’t have an accent but also aren’t citizens. It also goes back to my point about Toronto, where everyone has a thick accent of some form.
So again, we have to ask, “what is the point of this law?”
We’ve established that stating, “I am a citizen” negates the entire process. I can’t imagine it would take long to get that message around within the illegal immigrant community (since they are all living in the same room). Which makes me wonder if the people writing this law knew that before hand.
Verifying residency is a great addition to processing someone arrested. I assume they’ll take steps to verify their identity, that’s just one more process.
Verify residency as part of getting a driver’s license, then up the penalty for driving without a license. Oh wait, that would net too many white people.
The Sherriff sends out a Deputy and a Volunteer to hunt down illegal immigrants by enforcing traffic laws. And low and behold, they pull over a Latino man for something that police hardly ever pull anyone for (this example and CoolHandCox’s are the only ones that I have ever heard of). Furthermore the picture that I viewed of the man and truck didn’t even show a severly cracked windshield. I have two trucks with worse cracks that both have Texas Inspection stickers on them. I’ve been pulled over for having one license plate light out when cops were fishing for drunks. This is a case of a cop and a civillian fishing for illegal immigrants by pulling over Latinos for minor bullshit. The only comedy here is the tragic comedy of a ethnic minority who care less about his ethnic minority being abused by law enforcement.