We already accept that the police are allowed to attempt to establish a suspects identity during the course of their official investigation of crimes. (Even misdemeanors, like traffic violations.)
If, in the course of this activity, reasonable doubt arises as to the suspects immigration status, the local police make their findings available to ICE, and ICE makes the final call as to prosecute the case further. The local police are not the final determination in that case. ICE is. Arizona can’t even force ICE to do anything with the cases they turn over. Conceivably, ICE could decide not to do anything at all with whatever Arizona turns over to them.
Hence, I don’t think Arizona is establishing immigration policy or law. They are sharing info.
Consider this scenario:
mlees commits assault in Florida, flees to California. Even though mlees has not broken any California laws, mlees’ whereabouts will be communicated to Florida, and an extradition warrant drawn up. Note, mlees may not actually be convicted of anything yet, as well.
Yet, no argument is made that California is attempting to enforce Floridas laws.
Arizona already has permission to turn over illegal residents to ICE. It does not have permission to write its own immigration laws, or to establish state requirements for what legal residents have to do.
Funny thing is Hispanics are a generally conservative bunch. They’d be ripe for recruitment to vote conservative but the Republican party seems to be doing its level best to alienate anyone not a WASP.
During the last Republican National Convention I challenged people here on the SDMB who were watching to play a game called “Find the Minority”. I tried while watching…really paid attention. The cameras seemed to keep focusing on one token black guy in the crowd. As the cameras would pan the audience it was a sea of white.
I think the republican party is failing. Its base is far too narrow and near future demographics will work against them. We are seeing the flailing of a dying beast here. Of course, this is when they are most dangerous. The republican party 20 years from now will likely be a far different thing than it is today.
This seems to make the law totally useless. If all an illegal immigrant has to do get off is say is “I’m a citizen,” then as soon as this is known among the immigrant population, no one is going to be arrested for it. If on the other hand more evidence is needed than that, then this means effectively everyone is going to have to carry their SS or passport at all times (something that the creators deny). Or else they are going to have to profile people by accent, skin color, or economic status (something the creators also deny).
Someone please explain to me why this law isn’t totally idiotic.
You’re not trying to stop them from hopping the fence. You’re trying to determine if they did hop the fence.
The point of issuing the cards is to prove that individual went through the process.
Those who didn’t won’t have the cards.
Part of determining whether someone circumvented the process (part of collecting the evidence, if you will) is to see if they have a card in their possession. (I would except as legitimate, with verification, that they have left their card in their domicile.) The whole point of the Federal Green Card requirement is to determine who went through the process.
I agree. It’s a $100 fine, per links provided by others.
You said the Feds were indeed enforcing the immigration law at the border.
My question was: What about those who don’t use the regular border checkpoints? Are they home free? Are the folks who use the checkpoints, or indeed, go through the whole green card buisness chumps?
How does the Feds enforce immigration in the interior?
I suspect part of their collection of facts includes asking the suspect for a Green Card.
Please see my other post on police establishing identity.
Arizona is not establishing NEW law or policy regarding Immigration. It’s requiring (or attempting to, anyway) it’s own officers to comply with that statutory permission.
No “argument” is made because there’s no question; California is attempting to enforce Florida’s laws. If Florida wants California to stop enforcing its laws, it simply has to stop requesting that California extradite suspects.
I want to say that I don’t feel that the desperate poor who sneak into the U.S. are a problem, IMO.
It’s the drug smugglers, cop killers, folks we already deported for felonies that I want kept out. I think strong border enforcement is one tool among others to help in that goal.
There will always be the above type of people who will try (and some will be successfull) to get around the system because they know (or feel) that they would not pass muster. Even if we grant amnesty today, there will still be people who try to circumvent the system (for whatever reason) tomorrow.
mlees here is the problem, there are three classes of people: illegal immigrants who will have no proof of legal status, legal immigrants who should have some proof of citizenship, and citizens, who generally do not carry around proof of legal status. It is not a question of enforcing a law on immigrants it is a question of enforcing a law on all people.
Come on now. ‘Protecting the lives and property of the people of Arizona’? Isn’t that the job of the police already? Do they really need a law telling the police to protect the lives and property of the people in thier jurisdiction? Isn’t that their job description already?
Or is your description of the issue a bit of hyperbole perhaps?
If failure to pay federal taxes directly results in people being killed, property being destroyed and a general breakdown in law and order along the border, it might be a good idea.
You’re trying to determine if WHO jumped the fence? Who is “they?”
We’re talking only about enforcement of the law that requires legal residents to carry their green cards. That is a separate enforcement issue from the issue of illegal immigration. That law only applies to legal immigrants.
Who exactly are these “someones” that you’re talking about, and since when has Arizona been given permission to go around verifying anybody’s resident status?
I said they were enforcing the green card law at the border. I am talking about only that very narrow and specific law, not any other immigration laws.
Homefree from what? No, they are still in the country illegally. Harassing legal residents for their green cards will not affect illegal residnts in the slightest.
They enforce the GREEN CARD law by checking green crads. That is the only law I am discussing.
The “suspect?” Everyone who crosses through border security is a “suspect?”
No, it’s writing new law. It’s requiring cops to do things that the state does not have permission to do. That’s what the federal lawsuit is about.
It’s just that you’re such a frequent contributor in general that I found it difficult to accept the fact that you hadn’t read any of those monsthreadsities, which are full of examples of people – in the thread itself – ignoring that kind of thing. But there was no call to doubt your simple statement. I apologize for having done so.
It’s not the federal government’s job to protect the lives and property of the people of Arizona. That’s Arizona’s job.
Having said that, could you explain how the lives and property of the people of Arizona are at risk if a legal permanent resident doesn’t take his green card to the gym with him?
Protecting them from whom? Drugrunners or hopeful farm laborers?
Hint: Drugrunning is already illegal, has been for a long time.
Another hint: Drugrunners don’t stick around waiting to get asked for their papers anyway.
The point of issuing the cards is to prove that individual went through the process.