The judge’s behavior towards the children is an abuse of power, but not the first one to have occurred in this story. The mother’s apparent behavior towards the children (the whole alienation thing) is also a horrible abuse of power.
Overall, this is the kind of outcome you get when you try to protect children without giving them sufficient say in matters that affect them.
I don’t mean the children should be given that authority now and that would fix everything. But they should have been consulted at the time of the divorce, and should have continually been consulted all along the line.
I have firsthand knowledge of judges ignoring a child’s well-being, and demonstrating their own complete lack of knowledge of the law.
Those kids were held in contempt of court. How can a minor legally be held in contempt of anything.
In the case of an abusive father, the children either keep quiet and the abuse continues, or they speak up in which case the judge declares the mother is putting them up to it, whereupon the kids are forced to stay with the father and allow the abuse to continue. In the linked case, I have no idea whether the father abused the kids, but the kids WITNESSED THE FATHER ABUSING THE MOTHER.
The father should be ashamed of himself. He let (probably encouraged) the judge to make that ruling. He is more interested in winning, and punishing the kids for defying him, than in their wellbeing.
The problem with 95% of this thread is that posters are filling in the holes in the story to their own satisfaction and to make whatever point they wish made.
No matter what the real story, these children do not belong in juvenile detention. Horrible ruling, the judge should be removed from office by whatever means are applicable in her jurisdiction.
Like I said earlier, it sounds like pretty much everyone involved in this case is just a terrible person.
sigh
none of us are even remotely involved with these proceedings, so I’m getting rather tired of people repeatedly demanding “evidence.” What fucking evidence would any of us have? All we have to go on are the public court transcripts.
No, he didn’t. The only evidence we’ve got says that both the mother and the father opposed this ruling, but that neither has the legal authority to overrule Judge Crazypants.
Don’t be ridiculous. I haven’t mentioned any of those, especially P_d P___le, which only attracts their attention. The judge has a cabbage growing out of the back of her neck and soon you will too because you mentioned them.
Suppose your mom and I got into a fight and I slapped her around; she didn’t hit me, I only hit her. If a judge in a civil suit later ordered you to have lunch with me, would you agree on the basis that it’s only lunch and you’re scared to be held in contempt, or would you refuse to socialize with me even to the point of being imprisoned for sticking to your guns? Would you give any thought as to how your mom would feel if you caved and acted like me hitting her wasn’t a big enough deal to stand up against the judge’s request? Because I bet the kids sure did.
I feel like you are only dumb-founded because you’ve decided that the kids made up the story of abuse and that it can’t possibly be true and why they want nothing to do with their father.
Hmmmm - I admit, on reading further, supposedly the father did NOT encourage it.
However, only he (and his people) are allowed to talk to the children. The only way (per the initial ruling, I understand they’ve briefly been let out on work detail, er, to go to camp) that they can get out is by the father visiting them and saying that they now have a great relationship with him.
Ignoring all the other background (whether the mother has poisoned the kids etc.), how great a relationship are YOU going to have with someone when you’re in jail because you don’t have a good relationship.
The father’s lawyer should have objected. The childrens’ guardian ad litem (guardians at litem?) should have objected. Failing that, if the father cared one damn bit about those kids he should have gone immediately to the slammer, gone back to the judge, and insisted all was fine. He most assuredly should NOT have left the country. Guess what, dadhole, your kids are more important than a business trip.
That judge needs to be thrown off the bench and disbarred.
But do you understand that not only aceplace, but the judge, the guardian ad litem, the childrens’ lawyers, the court officers, and counselors have all come to pretty much that same conclusion? They have all come to the conclusion that the custodial parent is doing something horrific and extremely harmful to the kids in terms of alienating and brainwashing the kids and should not be the custodial parent.
The guardian ad litem specifically mentions in this youtube video of the courtroom testimony (at about 5:15) that the mother seems to have scripted things for the children.
I have, however, seen things in other cases which predispose me to distrust the judge and the father’s legal people. Therapists can be bought who will support any point of view their client asks for. “Independent” experts can be duped.
Do some googling of fathers’ allegations of parental alienation, and the wackjob who started that whole thing.
I have no doubt that there are evil people, manipulators, and just plain goofballs who have claimed alienation when it didn’t exist. By the same token, though, it DOES happen. I have personal experience of this, which I’ve shared briefly in other threads on this board.
Full disclosure: My bias is in favor of the father in this case, because I’ve gone through something vaguely similar. Not nearly to this level, but I understand how a parent can manipulate and alienate a child, even in a case of joint custody.
Having said that, I think the judge overstepped her bounds with the contempt charge. I get the sense she is beyond frustrated with the mother and the children in this case, and she let her frustration rule, rather than her good judgment.
But it amazes me how people can simply handwave away testimony, documentation, and repeated references / inferences by multiple people, including lawyers for the children, regarding manipulation and alienation on the part of the mother.
Use Occam’s Razor here, and strip away whatever prejudices and preconceived notions you may have. Sure, there are two sides to every story, and then there’s the truth … but in this instance, there seems to be a lot more evidence for “truth” on the father’s side of the story than the mother’s.