By the way, that would be golf shirts.
Not to say anyone who doesn’t know how to knot a tie is somehow stuck with no solution. Just saying that if you tapped 100 guys on the shoulder at random, I’ll bet you something more than 10 would have trouble tying a tie for you on the spot. (Again, I have no problem with the judge’s direction. You can’t knot a tie? Take 10 minutes out of your life and learn.)
I have to agree with you. I’m absolutely disgusted by the number of people who wear casual clothes to formal events or ones in which business attire is correct. (Don’t even get me started on what I’ve seen people wear to funerals!) It looks childish and disrespectful.
I’ve never heard a reason for it that didn’t sound whiny, and as you say, a tad bit selfish. I don’t particularly like wearing dress clothes, either. (Most of the time when I’m at home, I wear pajamas.) Heels hurt and nylons are itchy, but if the situation calls for them, I’m going to suck it up and wear them for a few hours. That’s part of being an adult-- being able to set your personal preferences aside for a brief period of time in order to show proper respect to the situation.
When come back, wear tie.
Yeah, that strip of cloth around your neck … it’s so MEANINGFUL. Without it, you’re a nobody, man. People who compare a tie to a fetish object worn by an African shaman at important ceremonies are just being ignorant. Ties are civilized!
To tell the truth, I like playing dress-up sometimes. The difference between me and some of the posters here is, I know I’m playing. Taking ties or dress in general seriously on any level is just stupid. The fashion designers who put their models in outfits that look like they were designed by a three-year-old know their stuff is not to be taken seriously.
Really, a lot of my best moments occur when I’m stark naked.
AS far as men unable to tie ties, at every dressy event in high school or college I’ve ever attended, there were always plenty of guys who couldn’t tie their own ties. Who did they turn to for help? Girls. Always. I never understood this. Sometimes they asked me to help them, to which I would respond, “Why would I know how to tie a tie? I never have and never will have to wear one. You’re the one who should know how, since its part of dressing yourself.”
Aside from my general belief that the judge has no business demanding that the jurors play dress-up, he completely ignores the fact that a suit and tie is not the preferred formal wear of everyone in America.
I agree, too. I think there are times in life when it simply shows respect to a person or occasion to dress in nice clothes. It has nothing to do with what kind of job you have or what you feel comfortable in. I am most comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt, but that doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to wear such an ensemble all the time.
I would sincerely compare a tie to the fetish object, if that is what is appropriate for the Shaman to wear at that important ceremony. The tie is really just a symbol, true, but that doesn’t mean that symbols are unimportant. People convey messages by how they dress, and the more dressed up one is, the more it conveys the seriousness of the event.
I should’ve included a smiley in my post I guess.
I have a little more than half a dozen suits; and maybe 30 some odd ties. I also consider ties pretty stupid, but in my previous career I was in marketing, so suit and ties it was. However, nearly all my ties have cartoon characters on them, which is sort of a reflection of my opinion on ties. I get some really great ones at X-mas, as my friends and relatives scour the earth for one they haven’t seen me in. I do own a few regimental and paisleys for funerals and the like. I’ve never made it as far as the courthouse for jury duty.
P.S. I’m, a black male, I learned to tie a tie at eight, and can’t think of a single black person I know that doesn’t know how to tie one.
If worn properly, they shouldn’t be uncomfortable.
In case you’re serious, I don’t think you’ll see the defendant in an orange jumpsuit. I served on a jury in January and when we saw the defendant, he was already seated at the table, in civilian clothes. The courthouse was adjacent to the county jail, but we never saw the defendant moved in or out of the courtroom and we never saw him in a jumpsuit or in handcuffs. I am not a lawyer, but I think it’s considered prejudicial to see him like that.
I wasn’t sure how to dress for jury service, since like many other men, I rarely wear a suit. I ended up wearing the same polo shirt, khaki pants and casual shoes I wear to work for the first day or so, and then sweaters thereafter (because the jury box seemed a little chilly). I wasn’t worried about the judge objecting (actually, my bigger worry was dozing off).
At my college the male professors can be divided into 3 groups based on age; senior citizenish (60+) who always wear either a suit or that sports coat with leather patches and a tie, the middle aged who were business casual or casual, and the 20-somethings on their first jobs who always were full suits and ties. Friday my literature professor (60+) was wearing a turtleneck and khakis. Everyone was talking about it. All day I overheard students and faculty talking about it. For the record nearly all students wear a tee-shirt or sweatshirt and shorts or jeans. The two exceptions I can think of the top of my head are the police academy students who have to wear a white dress shirt, black tie, and black pants (the other is a Roman Catholic nun).
Some girls today know how to tie ties because men’s ties were (and to a lesser degree, still are) a potential fashion accessory for girls. I wouldn’t expect the type of girl who isn’t particularly interested in clothes to know how to tie one, because she’s not liable to ever have wanted to put one on herself before. But the reason guys are going to girls for help is much simpler- it’s an easy excuse to get her hands on him. :rolleyes:
I consider it completely unreasonable for a judge to demand jurors wear ties, and I do know how to tie one despite being a girl because we wore them in band.
My husband owns one tie–a Winnie-the-Pooh tie he wore at our wedding. I do not own a skirt of any sort, nor pantyhose, nor stockings. Not gonna do it, no way, no how.
I’m a college student whose job requires only the most casual of dress; I do not own a suit and could not afford one, especially not on the twelve dollars a day you get for jury duty (minus the amount of money lost for time off my job). The judge would have to deal with it, I’m afraid.
Unless he wants me to wear a tie over a t-shirt: I do, in fact, know how to knot a tie. But I doubt that would reflect the looks he’s going for.
I was an obedient conformist once; I believed that wearing a suit and tie would grant me some level of respect, as if that ritualized clothing made me a grander person. Then I grew up. People respected me at work because of the quality of my work and my intelligence. More than that, I am respected because of the way I treat other people.
I learned that when people judge a man by his suit, the verdict is often “pompous.” A man who sees me as a better man in a suit is a poor judge of character. Wrapping myself in fine wool with a silken ornament down my shirt doesn’t change what’s in my heart.
I don’t see that he demanded it. He made the request once and then let it go. That doesn’t sound like a demand to me.
Absolutely correct. I think he was wrong to request ties at all, but it certainly was not a demand.
True. I saw “urge” and “insist” in the OP and wrongly said “demand.”
Still, many of the jurors probably feel it is a demand, considering the source. And I am agin it.