Amazingly enough, I came home from work today to find a jury summons. There was nothing about a dress code. I’ll still dress nicely if I have to go.
Robin
I have been on jury duty several times. I enjoy it. Anyway, this one time, it is a trail to set the amount of money the defendant would get as there had already been a trail that the defendant won. *:: How would of thunk? :: *
The judge was a stern face woman. The attorneys for both sides were both asshats right from the get go. So we get the selection all done and we have given our names and what we do, etc. The judge looked at me kinda funny during the selection process. Things get started. We get into the meat of the matter a bit and it is the end of the day. After the judges instruction, everyone splits except me. I giver the judge the ‘high’ sign that I’d like to speak with her and she agrees. I go up and say things along the lines of:
“I do not want to disrespect your court but I am a biker and I’d like to wear my biker stuff to court just.”
She thinks about this a bit. She asks, “What all does this entail?”
Leather chaps, biker boots with spur, black jeans, vest with patches, Black “T”, chains and pins and dangly stuff. I’ll leave the knives and that stuff off. A leather du rag but no coat as it is summer time.
She agrees… !!!
The next day I get there early as do the other jurors and we are all sitting there when the judge enters. The lawyers were all later for some reason.
I could have swore that she snerked when she saw me. When all the lawyers came in together, they about dropped their jaws on the floor and could not look away. We finally get under way and the judge is poker faced as could be. They get through with all their lying and parlor tricks and it was time to go do our duty.
It was suggested we vote immediately for foreman to see if we could get past that part and get on with it. No one had said anything yet and I was elected on the first go. *:: Go figure… :: * So we do our deal which is a whole story in itself but not need in this missive. We are unanimous. Lookout folks, here we come.
We get all seated and the judge asks if we have a unanimous verdict. We did not have to have one but we did anyway. I stood up and said, “Yes your honor, we do.” The defendants attorney started beating his head on his table and the defendant looked like a deer caught in headlights. The judge had her hand over her mouth. The judge asked, Mr Xxxxx, you are the foremen?" I say, “Yes Ma’am.”
She goes, “And what is your verdict?” I tell her. Pandemonium ensues. It was a blast. The judge went to special effort to impress on the attorneys that we only talked to them f we wanted to and we could stop at anytime and if she heard even the slightest reports that we were badgered in anyway, they would have her to deal with.
So I go back to work the next week ( duty was for a week at a time ) and am answering the questions of my fellow workers. The boss walks up and says, “I hear the justice system almost could not handle you this week.” *::: oops ::; * Uh, boss, how do you know this? Well it seems that the judge is the bosses next door neighbor and has heard my name taken in vain on many a night during get togethers. She thought that she was finally getting to see what my boss was talking about and came in that first night and asked if her ‘biker dude’ was my bosses employee? What fun… She was in absolute delight that those particular attorneys were getting knocked down a notch or three. We still served justice and also provided a service to thew local justice system in that some arrogant lawyers were caught flat footed.
My boss said that I was the talk of the judges lunch gathering for several days and I think for subsequent developments that is served me in good stead when officious city employees over stepped a bit.
Looking back on all my times at jury duty, they all had excitement and drama and much fun, even if that fun was just some wonderful bridge games in the pool room. *:: Wanna blow some minds, wear biker stuff and blow the hotshots away at the bridge table. Bawahahahaha
*:: Don’t need no stinkin ties… :: *
I learned the Winsdor knot for the first time during senior year of college, base on internet instructions. That was for a presentation of my final research project. Prior to that, I always asked Mom and Dad for help whenever I needed to wear a tie. These days I’m teaching college classes and I wear a tie and dress shirt every day. It works wonders as far as convincing the students that I’m an adult and I make the rules.
If I was called to jury duty, I’d wear a tie out of common courtesy.
Maybe you don’t need a tie for jury duty, but you should at least wear nice pants and a collared shirt.
If you can’t figure out how to tie a tie, there’s plenty of information on the Internet about tieing one.
I don’t get people who refuse to dress up when the situation requires it. It smacks of being low-class. The same goes for wearing comic or cartoon ties. Are you an adult or what?
If I am ever called for jury duty, I will wear a tie.
This has nothing to do with respect for the proceedings; I’ll demonstrate that by doing my duty well. But thanks to an abortive experiment with private school I have a whole slew of ties based on Escher and Van Gough paintings that I never get to wear anymore. Some are explicitly “message” ties (like the one based on The Scream) that I’ll probably never get to wear again, but the Starry Night one is downright tasteful, I think.
The times I’ve been on jury duty in L.A. County, I’ve always found that everyone was very casual. About half the men would be in jeans, and the rest in dockers or similar trousers. Shirts for all tended to polo shirts, and there were hardly any suits to be seen.
How do the attorneys take potential jurors’ attire into account during the selection process? What’s the best strategy if you actually want to be on a jury?
I never saw a point of wearing a tie. I’ve worn them to job interviews and I guess I’d wear them to a funeral if a family member would happen to die.
I also would wear one if I was ever a defendant in a trial… I wouldn’t want anyone to convict me for not wearing one… 
I honestly don’t understand why “conformity” is considered to be almost an inherent evil by some people. We’re all conformists in that we even wear clothes. (An Amazonian woman would probably shake her head and ask me why I allow myself to be opressed into covering my breasts.)
To me, “conformity” in dress is a mark of maturity: I’m comfortable enough about my individuality to not feel threatened by dressing like others and mature enough to want to dress appropriately for a situation, despite my personal preferences.
Even in this day and age, clothing does make a statement. If you refuse to dress appropriately, it can be interpreted as petty rebellion or slovenly indifference, neither of which make a good impression. Like it or not, first impressions* do* matter, and there are people out there who will judge you if your clothing is not appropriate to the situation. Further, those judgements can affect your life in the opprotunites you are offered.
I want my personality and intelligence to stand out, not my clothing. Being the only person in the room wearing jeans and a t-shirt when everyone else is clad in business attire does make you stand out, and not in a good way.
I think men tend to be more resistant to dressing up than women because we have so few options. Women have any number of different types of dresses they can wear that say, “I appreciate the dignity of the situation”, or “I am dressing to impress because I do believe that clothes make a statement and I want you to notice that I care”, or otherwise project the message that we expect dressy clothing to project. And women’s choices do this without dark, conservative colors, and without requiring that legs and arms be FULLY covered by heavy cloth.
But with men OTOH we have suits. That’s it.
We’re in the Bay Area where CEOs don’t wear ties. When I was on jury duty, earlier this year, the judge had all he could do to keep people from wearing shorts to court, which is a bit much for me. The defendant wore a tie, but not a jacket. Only the lawyers wore suits - I don’t think any of the 200 or so in the jury pool wore a suit, and if any of them wore a tie I didn’t notice it.
I’m not surprised that kids today don’t know how to tie ties. When I was in junior high we had to wear one every day, but where would they get the practice nowadays?
Pantyhose or ties? 
Look, I know the Jduge wasn’t making a demand. But why the hell mention it at all? Does he have stock in a company that makes ties or sumthin? It’s reasonable to ask dudes to “dress appropriately”, it’s not OK to ask for a “snugly knotted necktie.” not more than it’d be OK to ask for “flesh-colored pantyhose”.
Well, I can tie my own tie…usually in a four-in-hand becaus I’m really tall, and only have 2-3 ties long enough to take a windsor and not look stupid on me.
However, I can only tie someone else’s tie if I stand behind them. My dad was the same…I think this is true of many guys. If someone objects to this, I can tie it around my own neck, loosen it and slip it over my head.
So if you are a (straight) guy, would you rather have (and have your buddys see it) some guy hugging you from behind, or a cute gal?
Certainly when I was in highschool I would not have been above concealing my knotting skill if it woulda got some cheerleaders arms around me.
I’m in two minds about the whole “tie-or-not-to-tie” issue…
On the one hand I hate having to wear a suit ‘n’ tie - it’s not what I’d choose for comfort (which for me is most important to getting good work done), and I think it lacks any imagination (not to say intelligence) to suppose that all men have the right shape and general style to carry off a standard suit and tie combo.
On the other hand… my wife informs me that I look freakin’ hot in a sharp business suit and tie. 
I have the right shape for it - 6" tall, late 20s, athletic build, so the way modern suits are cut shows me off to my best. Plus the fact I only wear it for “special” means I feel great - if I had to wear it every day it just becomes another item of clothing like my jeans and jumpers.
I’ve just started a job with american Fortune 15 firm, and no-body wears ties except in client meetings. The atmosphere is 100 times better that my last job, because men can wear what they feel comfortable in, rather than having to conform to some outdated notion that 3 ft of silk round your neck improves your ability to create spreadsheets.
I know corsets can make you ill for the wearing. Are you an expert on headaches? I know how to tie a tie. When properly tightened it becomes restrictive. Between migraines, arthritis in my neck, and a broken bone floating freely in my neck, I have problems with ties. I’ll wear a tie to a function for an hour or two and then it’s coming off. I have a drawer full of expensive silk ties and would love nothing better than to play dress-up.
Judges have every right to specify what sort of decorum is expected in their courtroom, not only of the participants (including jurors) but also, if they decide to make an issue of it, of the spectators. I’ve seen judges tell people to leave because they were sitting in the gallery eating, or blathering to each other.
As for all the “Ties are just stupid and I don’t have to wear one if I don’t wanna 'cause they’re stupid!” arguments, I’m not the least bit surprised. Americans in general, and younger Americans in particular, are generally slobs, uncultured, ignorant of formal manners, incapable of understanding or adjusting to different degrees of social decorum, and completely self-absorbed. “Casual” attire (meaning anything from torn T-shirts to shower shoes) is considered fashionably informal, and America is a culture that is obsessed with fashion and disdainful of formality. People in their thirties and forties strut around with the childish attitude that formal dress is some threat to their free-wheeling independence, and that anybody who wears adult clothing, is well groomed, and has formal manners is trying to somehow put them down. They just never learned that different occasions merit different habiliment, speech, manners, and attitudes. That hangin’ with the homies over a brewski is in fact a different situation from dining in a fine restaurant, or interviewing for a job, or attending a formal dance . . . or sitting in a courtroom as a juror. I’ve seen them in job interviews, or giving presentations to a large room full of people, and they still dress, carry themselves, and speak as if they were in a pool hall. They really don’t even get the concept that dress, speech, and comportment matter.
Not really their fault, probably. They simply never learned. Their parents didn’t teach them, and certainly the school system wouldn’t. They were taught from early childhood that it was their rebelliousness and vulgarity that made them so very special, and they figure dressing and behaving like a guttersnipe for all circumstances and occasions is a cool way to rebel against – whatever they think they’re rebelling against, I guess. For some people, adolescence just never really ends, and they’re actually smug about their refusal to enter adulthood. They grew up admiring Andrew Dice Clay, and never heard of David Niven. More’s the pity.
Clothes don’t make the man (or woman). But attire, carriage, bearing, grooming, posture and manner of speech certainly do give a good indication of what type of man he is.
We’re talking jury duty.
Everyone who keeps saying people should learn to dress appropriately is assuming that a tie is dressing appropriately. It’s circular.
“Why is it wrong not to wear a tie?”
“Because that’s not dressing appropriately.”
“Why isn’t it appropriate dress?”
“Because it doesn’t include a tie.”
If it’s a job interview, dress the way you need to win the job you want. Clothes are tools. Their use is practical, not ethical. I can’t be shamed about them. Shame is for something I do to others, not for what I wear.
Well, “ties are just stupid”. What you forget is that fashion evolves and ties are a remnant that is going out of style. Hell, not too long ago, the Judge would have been though to be “slobs, uncultured, ignorant of formal manners, incapable of understanding or adjusting to different degrees of social decorum, and completely self-absorbed” as he wasn’t wearing his powdered wig, which *everyone knows * is *proper attire * for the Courtroom. AFAIK, it still is in England.
Doesn’t excuse dudes from showing up in shorts and T-shirts, true. But a “snugly knotted necktie” is going the way of a “well-powdered wig”, like it or not. Call us Americans names all you like, but at least we’re smart enough to have dispensed with the wig. 
Well, if you were hoping for this judge to leap off the bench and stick his tongue down your throat, that’s a good plan!
If I wore a Western (bolo) tie? It has a collar piece in the shape of a longhorn skull-and if you pull a string, the eyes light up! Would that disqualify me? :smack:
I had no idea that proper courtroom attire involved a tie. My idea of proper courtroom attire comes from high school civics class where, prior to a series of field trips to the courthouse, a judge came and spoke with the class. We were told (in ~1996) that proper attire was in the ‘business casual’ realm and that the types of clothes that our teachers wore was the appropriate target. For men, ties were on the formal end of the given spectrum.