Just because it was taught in school doesn't make it appropriate to post

[BippityBoppityBoo]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

I’m stunned this was allowed to be posted.

Not just posted but defended, repeatedly.

Even has a mod’s imprimatur.

[nelliebly]

I’ve read the entire MPSIMS thread several times, and I still don’t understand how the mnemonic device is supposed to contribute anything whatsoever to the topic. The poster could have simply listed the resistor code colors without alluding to the mnemonic device at all. The fact the device was once taught in schools doesn’t further anyone’s understanding of the similarities between the Lego set and resistor code.

I learn from most people on these boards and almost without exception have had great respect and gratitude for the mods. Here’s a time when mods could learn from posters. I hope that’s the case, and if so, that mods take the high road and let us know they’ve seen how they’ve erred.

[MrDibble]

BBB and Czarcasm basically said all I would want to say in these posts:

@BippityBoppityBoo

It was offensive and it wasn’t appropriate to post it, much less for a mod to defend and attenuate it. We are supposed to be getting away from misogyny here, especially gratuitous stuff like this. I’m a woman, reading that cast an uncomfortable pall and then later I got to read that it was just ‘boys being boys. Aren’t we cute? We learned it in school so we can get away with it for the rest of our lifetimes without being bothered to change’. It’s great to be privileged.

@Czarcasm

Yeah, “If you think this is offensive, it used to be worse !” doesn’t make the newer version non-offensive, and considering the past history we have had on this board with misogyny you would think that eventually the wrongness of such an argument would be self evident.

@TriPolar

As far as the misogyny here you refer to, there is way, way less of it than there was just a few years ago. There was a major change in board culture and this is now a somewhat isolated case that looks more like a mistake than some kind of reversion.

Actually, I’m not sure that we’re not backsliding on the misogyny moderation. I’ve had a couple of recent post reports, about people inserting leering comments into Cafe threads not about sex, being dismissed as essentially no big deal.

[Cervaise]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

I’m stunned this was allowed to be posted.

I agree.

This was a net negative contribution to the topic and to the board, by a wide margin.

[Max_S]

@MandaJo

Fine to post about it, talk about it, even quote it–but not offer it as a bon mot .

I agree with this

~Max

[mordecaiB]

@MandaJo

Fine to post about it, talk about it, even quote it–but not offer it as a bon mot .

This is my view also. I will say that I am aware of nothing in the posting history of @Ynnad leads me to believe he meant it as an insult. He’s probably embarrassed right now. People post dumb shit all the time here without thinking things through.

[hajario]

@BippityBoppityBoo

It was hate speech. It was offensive, it was inappropriate. It was absolutely unnecessary to convey a concept. It was thoughtless and careless at best. It was being a jerk, even by SDMB rules.

No one needed warning or suspending. It was a teaching moment for a well placed mod note, especially once the hatefulness and offensiveness was brought to the attention of the mods. Doubling down and and continuing to defend it is deeply regrettable and shows how far SD still has to go towards their avowed aspirations.

At least change the motto to “some ignorance we are just fine with”.

I couldn’t have said it better.

[Ynnad]

Obviously the mnemonic itself is offensive. That should be clear at first glance. As MandaJo pointed out, it may very well been just as offensive back in the old timey days. But it was the standard mnemonic for the resistor color code used by electronic technicians for many, many years. I know from personal experience that it was still in widespread use in the early 1980s. I never heard anyone use Big Beautiful Roses … or any of the other suggestions. I don’t know if the offensive mnemonic is still in widespread use today. Modern electronics is mostly plugging in complete chips and building circuits from individual components has fallen by the wayside. Therefore, familiarity with the resistor color code is not as important as it once was.

If there are any older electronic geeks on this message board, and I suspect there are, I am willing to assert that, for at least some of them, the offensive mnemonic ran through their mind when they began reading about the resistor color code and maybe a few even said it out loud. In my opinion, a thorough discussion of the resistor color code would be incomplete without a discussion of memory aids used in deciphering it.

My post was made hastily as it was past my bedtime and I needed to get to bed. In hindsight, it would have been prudent to include quite a bit of explanation and context to the mnemonic for those people who were apparently completely unaware of it. For that omission I apologize.

[MandaJo]

I was completely aware of it, but I still didn’t like reading it. What reaction did you expect from people? I think most dudes of a certain age and background would see it and smile fondly. I sorta suspect that’s how you meant it, as a fond sort of “Pepperidge Farm remembers” sort of way. That’s why I called it a “bon mot”. It was a nostalgic, witty thing to say, a nod from one of the boys to the others in the room.

I wonder if you really see how tasteless it is. I mean, is any discussion of Brazil Nuts incomplete if someone doesn’t bring up “n***** toes”?

How should it have been phrased, if you were more awake?

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Ynnad

My post was made hastily as it was past my bedtime and I needed to get to bed. In hindsight, it would have been prudent to include quite a bit of explanation and context to the mnemonic for those people who were apparently completely unaware of it. For that omission I apologize.

No, it wasn’t the absence of an explanation that made it unpalatable. It was offensive back then, it’s offensive now, and there was no need to drop a little ditty about Black men ravishing or raping women, except for the slut, into a thread about sexual tolerance. No explanation would have helped.

[engineer_comp_geek]

Yep, I goofed. Sorry about that. It is/was such a common phrase in electrical engineering / tech that I had become desensitized to it. I apologize.

[BippityBoppityBoo]

Engineering schools have a lot of apologizing to do. Some restorative justice is called for as the harm no doubt extends over several generations of students.

[Enjoy_Slurm]

@engineer_comp_geek

It is/was such a common phrase in electrical engineering / tech

“It is” So there are still a whole lot of people going around casually saying this phrase out loud at work and school in 2021?

[engineer_comp_geek]

I’m pretty sure schools these days have all switched to less offensive phrases. It was still taught in some schools up into the early 2000s though.

At work though, if you’re an old engineer working in a building with a lot of other old engineers, we all grew up with that phrase and to us it’s just a stupid mnemonic. Might be different in a building with younger engineers but I have heard the phrase spoken casually around our office within the last couple of years and no one thought it was offensive.

[BippityBoppityBoo]

@engineer_comp_geek

no one thought it was offensive.

With all due respect, shaking my head.

[Summerday]

@engineer_comp_geek

but I have heard the phrase spoken casually around our office within the last couple of years and no one thought it was offensive.

Wow. That’s shocking. There are no women at your workplace? Not even a female office manager or project manager? I suppose that there aren’t any black people either.

I’m just stunned that 1) someone would say that at work and 2) face no repercussions for doing so.

Thanks for reconsidering and then reversing your initial decision.

[MrDibble]

So are you going to update the complete non-apology modnote?

[MandaJo]

I wonder if it’s been said casually around women, or if they self-censor, in the exact same way those same guys wouldn’t have said it in front of a woman 40 years ago. Superficially, that feels “considerate”, but it shows there’s an understanding of how offensive it is, but no reflection on the dynamic. Joking about raping women and sluts in a casual manner whenever they aren’t around just intensifies the boy’s club vibe.

Actually, that’s a pretty good test. If an old tech rattled the mnemonic out in front of just anyone–clients, women, women-clients, etc–then I think you could make an argument that it has become more of a string of syllables than a string of words. Still shouldn’t be used, but it’s a different sort of thing. But I don’t think that’s true. I think most old tech’s mothers have never heard them say it. Because it’s the sexist and, in some forms, racist, jokes that make it memorable. The whole point of a mnemonic is to punch.

There is (of course) an XKCD about this. And even there, it’s not actually repeated, because the actual phrase adds nothing.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

I have to imagine there are plenty of people who find it offensive who feel powerless to speak up.

[Czarcasm]

@engineer_comp_geek

Might be different in a building with younger engineers but I have heard the phrase spoken casually around our office within the last couple of years and no one thought it was offensive.

Either no one thought that speaking up would be to their benefit or, even worse, no one in your office actually thought it was offensive. That you just don’t understand that this does not speak well of those in your office astounds me.