I’ve been in those types of situations at work where the men make some big deal about censoring themselves around me which comes across to me as infantilizing and condescending, but I somehow feel that I should be thankful/appreciative that they aren’t saying awful things to my face…even though I shouldn’t have to hear offensive things at work in the first place.
It really just puts me on edge and metaphorically separates me from the group…and just makes it harder to focus and feel comfortable working with the group…while the guys almost seem to be patting themselves on the back for doing the bare minimum which is to not say offensive things at work.
Hm. Google books seems to think that two modern books have the “bad boys ravish” form, but you can’t actually see them in the text.
Quite a few hits on the “bad boys rape” and “black boys rape” versions, both used directly in old books and complained about in new ones. And one modern book on guitar amplifiers uses the “black boys rape” one directly!
Although even XKCD which is one of my faves could not get through six mnemonics without having women, sex, and male control thereof appear in two of them. Or maybe it was three of six depending on how exactly you want to count.
This whole bit about two(+) genders and sex is apparently quite hard to keep under wraps.
It’s a stretch even to call it “male control.” In any heterosexual relationship, if there’s been no intercourse and the woman claims her new pregnancy is from God, the dude has a right to ask questions.
Tangentially, I wonder if there’s an xkcd about “There’s an xkcd about that.” That sort of recursive metacommentary seems like something that would appeal to Randall Munroe.
I find this depressing. I’d like to think that regardless of whether women or people of color are around, old white engineers would be so aware of and appalled by the phrasing, no matter how familiar, that they just wouldn’t use it, period. It shouldn’t be a matter of “Uh-oh!There’s someone here who might be offended by my saying that!” It should be a matter of “I’m not going to repeat that old mnemonic because it’s really disgusting.”
Wow, I find that shocking. I would have thought there might be a few women and people of color knocking around these days, even in engineering firms.
And thanks for updating. I was shocked by that, and didn’t feel it appropriate to disagree in thread.
(And while i thought about taking it to the mod loop, i find that takes a lot more energy, especially if I’m on my phone, and i, too, have had a lot going on in real life.)
I appreciate the update, but I want to point out that “it is considered offensive today” is sort of a weasel phrase. It suggests
It wasn’t offensive back in the day, when of course it was. You didn’t say it in front of your mother or your wife or your daughter. It’s just being crude towards women was more widely acceptable among men. Did you run home from tech school and tell your mom the clever mnemonic you learned?
“Considered” sorta implies “considered by some, the sensitive ones”, as if that’s still open to debate, or just a passing fad.
I’m mentioning these things because I think you have a habit of qualifying mod notes with these sorts of terms. It’s “let’s everyone get along and agree to disagree” language. The problem is that it comes across as humoring the over sensitive, like you are saying to the other guys “I know, I know, I know, but this is how we have to talk in front of women” .
To put it in different terms, if someone had dropped “n***** toes” into a discussion of Brazil notes, would you have said “that name is considered offensive today”?