Just get another job (on the service sector)

The BBQ Pit
81

In the end, I guess I have to blame the company. The company sets up the work environment and defines the standards. If it is an environment that accepts mediocrity and alows incompetance it is no use getting mad at the idiot behind the counter.

Now for the most part I have a fairly low expectation of the level of service I expect to receive from the biological components of the vending machines we call “fast food” restuarants. It is infuriating, however, when I have to repeat an order 5 times, I don’t get my shake or fries until after I finished my meal, and the order ends up being wrong anyway. But in the end it’s the managers fault if the workers are disorganized or they screw up the orders because they cant hear over the PA system radio.

I’m not asking for a “pleasent” experience. Just not an “unpleasent” one.

Kind of a hijack but I actually miss the simplicity of working a counter job with a couple of your buddies. If you think those minimum wage jobs sucks, wait until you have to take a corporate cubicle job to pay the bills.

82

Heh. Yeah, I tell people I miss waitressing all the time. I make more money now and am more gratified by my current job, but every now and then I miss certain aspects of it, mostly social.

Binarydrone, I wasn’t getting snippy, I was just a little put off since you asked me to expand on my theory and when I did, I didn’t get a response but noticed you responding to other posters. Sorry if I acted prematurely.

The way you tweaked my cat analogy put it right in the “condoning” camp. You claim you’re not doing this, but all of your examples say otherwise. Through your revamped cat analogy, you pretty much didn’t give the kid any choice but to hurt the cat. The service industry is not like that. Service workers are not regularly in a situation where they have no option but to be rude.

I said it before and I’ll say it again, we’re not talking about reactions to rude customers, we’re talking about normal, every day interactions with normal, calm people. Let’s keep this discussion somewhat contained.

83

Yeah, the can analogy was pretty forced. I never was very good at that.

Re: the material that you posted. I have had a bit of time to think about it and do have a thought or two. Like you, I am in the camp that believes that there has been a general decline in manners that has been going on for a while. I was actually just chatting with my wife about this the other day (we were out in public, and saw someone younger than we spitting on the sidewalk). The point that was made was that, given the current rate of decline, and always remembering how unpolished we are when compared to older generations, that it is scary to think that soon we will by default be the guardians of old-school etiquette.

I guess that I do agree that one thing that is missing is a common moral code. The point is well made that, at least when I was in school, if the school felt that I did something wrong and punished me for it then it was a certainty that my folks would back them up and add to the punishment. The same would go for the adults in the neighborhood.

I guess that the reservations that I have (especially with the first cite) center around the notion that it is up to the church to re instill a common morality. This is not to say that there isn’t some truth to that, just that (IMHO) we would loose more than we gain. Naturally, this perspective comes from that of a non-Christian, but I am convinced that there must be a way to have a functioning, civil society without it being governed by a homogonous church. Just what that is, I have not a clue at the moment.

In any event, it may be that my personal experience has been coloring my stance in this debate (towards tending to blame the customer). Basically, I simply do not experience the kind of bad service that folks have been talking about. Given that I 100% believe that it is out there, I have been trying to think about why it is that this is the case. I have come up with the following:
[ul]
[li]When I shop, I substantially favor the small locally owned establishments over the chains. It seems to me that these establishments have less turnover, and the folks that work there tend to have more of a vested interest in customer satisfaction. Also, in these establishments, I am a “regular” and so tend to be treated well. [/li][li]If I see a customer that is being rude to an employee (or a manager) I will say something in defense of the employee. [/li][li]I do what I can to make the employee’s job easier (check ready with everything but the amount before I am rung up, bagging my own groceries if they are really backed up. That sort of thing).[/li][/ul]
Anyway, sorry so long. Just a few thoughts.

84

Binarydrone

You see, I’ve experienced horrific customer service that’s been totally unprovoked. For example, I had to go to Smart and Final to gather some supplies for an upcoming event I was putting on. The cashier began running my items through and didn’t say a word to me, even when I gave a cheery “hi!”. Ok, fine. No big deal, maybe she’s having a rough day.

So she finishes ringing my items and the total is on a little screen next to her. She just stares at me. I’m obviously trying to read the price but am having some difficulty (I’ve got really bad eyesight, and I’m squinting). I ask her “I’m sorry, can you tell me how much it is? I can’t see the total” She sighs at barks out the price at me. Whoah, this is going beyond bad day stuff here, this girl is being just outright rude to me, for no reason.

So I run my card, she shoves the sign box in my face (doesn’t tell me to sign, just turns it towards me and gives me a dirty look) I finish, mumble a “thank you” to which I get no response, and hurry the hell out of there.

I was actually trying to think about where I could have met this girl before and done something to piss her off. That’s how rude she was to me. And I did nothing to provoke it.

That is the kind of poor customer service I’m talking about. Can you understand now why I’m a little put off by your “lay off the poor customer service workers” plea? There’s no excuse for this kind of behavior. None.

85

It seems your argument is that the companies are intending to provide good customer service, but the employees are not fulfilling that promise, and the companies are not watching closely enough to see this.

There is a far more obvious explanation - the poor customer service you are getting is exactly the customer service the companies are intending to provide.

When you ask why someone accepted a job if they were not going to do it, you must first ask yourself exactly what job they accepted. Ask yourself if, just maybe, they are doing the job they accepted, but you just don’t like the job itself.

For example, if you see an employee talking on the phone instead of helping customers, you must first ask yourself: how do I know that this person is not doing the very job they accepted? Isn’t it possible that the company decided that they would be better off providing only a semblance of customer service, rather than spending more on decent customer service?

In fact, isn’t your argument that poor customer service is a result of lack of monitoring by the company ridiculous? The company knows exactly what they are providing.

86

I’m sure the big corps want the biggest bang for their customer service buck they can provide. But there’s no doubt they want to pay absolutely as little for it as they can POSSIBLY get away with it, and will tolerate greatly diminished levels of service if that means greatly reduced costs. In fact, in a thread on how IT jobs are being shipped overseas cites the experience of several large corps that have shipped their customer service function overseas, so what if the customer service people there can barely speak or understand English.

Of course, all corps call on their employees to provide the very best customer service possible, but given the general behavior of corps WRT wages, etc., I think the only rational way to regard this is as a cynical ploy.

87

To throw in my feeble 1 1/2 cents:
I just don’t see what’s so totally terrible about some of the service described here. A cashier who is sullen, who doesn’t say much, who doesn’t say, “Hi”?
To me, that’s not bad service, just not particularly great. BAD service is screaming at the customer, over-charging, insults, etc.
I get what I pay for. A $3 fast-food order doesn’t mean I deserve super-friendliness from the hair-netted girl behind the counter. I means $3 worth of food, period.
I have low expectations. If even these aren’t met, I complain to management. Big friggin whoop. There are plenty of really nasty folks out there, and a frown on my neighborhood Kwik-E-Mart worker just doesn’t rank high on my list of offensive behavior. I’ll save that for crap the mayor pulls.

88

Damn Jessica, you don’t only expect little, you expect nothing.

I’m sorry, but when I have to practically beg to get the cashier to tell me the total of my order, there’s a problem.

I’m honestly in awe that someone would defend that cashier. You don’t happen to work at Smart and Final do you?

:confused:

89

What would you define as “good service?”

“Bad service?”

“Acceptable service?”

“Great service?”

I’m genuinely interested in knowing.

Some people are like Jessica, and consider it good if they can get in and get out with what they want. Some people think we’re giving them the shittiest service they have ever had in their LIVES and it is an OUTRAGE if we do anything less than everything in our power (including ignoring other people, calling every other store in the area that may or may not be able to help, etc) to make sure their lives are perfect.

90

It’s not about wages. It’s about self-respect.

Employees are dispensible - we’ve established that.

So I find myself in a position where I get $6.50/hour. No-one is interested in my career development, in my ability to do my job (training is too expensive!), in my opinions on anything, in my dignity (“the customer is always right”), in my capabilities (everything is dumbed down to the point that a monkey could pretty much do it - ingredients come pre-sliced to McDonalds restaurants, for example), in my initiatives re: self-improvement (“Don’t ask questions. And don’t even think about starting a union.”). Even if you increase my salary I will still be subject to these conditions.

People need these things: dignity, respect, some degree of control over their surroundings. If you treat people like robots they will act like robots - why should I go out of my way for your (the company’s) customer - I get absolutely nothing out of it except the risk of screwing up and getting in trouble. Better to do the minimum possible.

msmith - these shitty jobs are often the only ones available. Unlike better-paying jobs they often offer flexible schedules (good for students and single parents) and have low education and language requirements (good for immigrants). These are examples of why people would take these jobs even though they are ‘beneath’ them. Educated adults, often, who end up treated like apes in the manner described above.

And furthermore, educated adults like single immigrant mothers often cannot think of getting a ‘better’ job for the reasons listed in this paragraph. If you have a university degree, and have a job which requires you to accept the constant shit thrown at you by customers, and you have no real hopes of getting a better one because you speak with a thick accent and you have to be home at 3 to look after your kids, you will not be a happy employee. I have known many such women, all of whom (in the beginning, at least) showed

and were not rewarded. I have known several to actually be fired because their salaries became “too high” for a customer service representative - their good work was recognized by store managers and raises were given, but they were not “management material” so they never got promoted.

I hate to harp on about this but I feel the need to point out that (in Toronto, anyway) most of these shitty jobs are taken by students or immigrants. Thus my example is hugely relevant to the discussion.

91

Cowgirl, I think what some would say is that if good workers would just hang in there long enough and *persevere[/] and keep looking for that wonderful opportunity that’s just around the corner, they’ll find that things will work out for them. That the workers who just give up and stop trying are only hurting themselves because ultimately the system is fair.

I am sure that if queried further they would quite seriously inform you that you will indeed have pie in the sky when you die.

92

racinchikki,

I agree that some people’s definition of “good” service can vary from others.

But comon’. Read my example about my experience in Smart & Final. Anyone who would claim I recieved good service that day has lost their damn minds.

93

Fine, the psyche, poor wages, poor prosepects, etc. of the worker who delivers poor, unmotivated customer service is noted. And please note, I don’t care about any of that. And if you you want some symetry, I would not expect any worker to put up with assholish customer behavour because that customer has had a tough day, or gets paid too little, or their kids are screaming in their ear or they are running late so they expect an employee to bend time and space to get them out the door faster than humanly possible.

94

Which is why, as a customer, when I’m unhappy with something I completely bypass the poor employee and dump on the owner/upper management, even if I have to write to their headquarters (lots of businesses here don’t have their main offices in AK) to do so.

95

**

Yeah, ya gotta hate those damned “biological components” in those fast food places. Next thing you know, they’ll want to vote.

The thing is, it’s not the manager’s fault. Not really.

As it’s been said in this thread, already, the managers have to pick their employees from the bottom of the barrel.

They’re offering shitty money for what is usually a shitty position. And they’re supposed to have exemplary employees?

Ah, but the manager can fire them and replace them with new “biological components”, right? Sure. And he’ll get the exact same quality he got before.

So shit, why bother firing them? That’s just more paperwork.

-Joe

96

The last 8 to 10 posts on this page bring up a good point. One that hasn’t really been discussed or defined.

The term “rude” or “bad service”. I think that some of the people have one definition of “rude/bad” service in mind and others in this debate may have a definition of “rude” that is different from those they are at odds with.

In the case of lezlers’ snippy little salesgirl, that was pretty borderline rude behaviour, she wasn’t crossing the line enough to, say get noticed by one of her managers, but whatever was stuck in her craw, she SURE was “taking it out on” lezlers.

And as in the case of the linked threads and the purchaser of tampons who was deliberately embarrassed, that was WAY beyond the pale of rudeness bordering on abuse.

That sort of rudeness, IMHO anyway, is inexcuseable no matter what you’re getting paid. After all, they (the rude clerks) were actually EXPENDING energy and going out of their way to be rude.

OTOH, if we’re talking about employees who are “merely” as some have said before, providing in service about the dollar amount they are getting paid, and not a penny more. To me, that’s not “rudeness” but seems pretty fair.

But that’s just MHO, I’d be interested to hear everyone’s “definitions” of what they consider “rude” or “bad” service.

I think that might go a long way toward helping clarify the main points in this debate.

I’ve also been in the service industry. Today, I still have “clients” in my line of work, but whereas in the 6.50 an hour crap jobs, I would give an approximate value, in my line of work today, I DO “bend over backwards” for clients. I also “bend over backwards” for MY vendors, those for whom I am a client.

And as the OP has been trying to state, and keeps getting misunderstood, a HUGE part of why I give 180% is because, not only am I paid fairly well, but MORE importantly, my bosses and clients treat me with respect and dignity. And conversely why many of those in CSR jobs tend to not “jump when the customer says jump”. They don’t get paid enough to do so.

I don’t think it’s that hard to understand that if someone is on their feet all day, running like crazy serving up fries or whatever, that their poor tired little feet aren’t going to go one INCH further than they are getting paid.

And to go even further, I don’t find it hard to understand how, if these same people are not only being paid crap, but being treated like nothing by managers and customers alike, how they’d start giving less and less to their jobs.

97

I agree with the OP that paying employees better wages would improve service, but perhaps not overnight. Consider the difference in the applicants for these types of help wanted ads:

New MegaMart needs employees, $6hr. Apply in-store, applicants will be interviewed between 2-4 PM.

vs.

X company needs customer service representatives, $10hr. Fax resume.

It is not just the issue of money that creates an environment for poor service. The companies that pay poorly are often desperate for help, even now. This translates into, “Any idiot with a clean record can work here.”

I worked in the restaurant business for eight years, and most jobs that are dealing with people do require skills that Any Idiot* may not have. Customer service requires patience, a good memory, empathy, patience, flexibility, knowledge of the products and more patience. Nearly every customer can be made happy, even difficult people can be given special treatment (read: the same fair deal everybody gets, phrased as “you are important”.)

The small amount of people that are impossible to deal with should be treated fairly and with respect (unless they violate the law, then the cops are called) and when management gets called in they need to treat the customer AND the employee with respect. Asking for unreasonable discounts, irrational complaining, (the food was terrible and the portion was way too small) etc. should not translate into employee humiliated and customer gets free stuff, it should be please feel free to leave, we cannot help you. Often, it’s these people that wear on employees especially when management looks at Any Idiot, looks at Unreasonable Customer and decides that Any Idiot is disposable in order to get Unreasonable Customer out of the store without further compliant. Any Idiot now has loses respect for management when this happens, and legitimate gripes from customers do not get communicated to management.

Folks who are good at customer service are an asset. Yes, many of them do their jobs well because they enjoy the challenge and have a good work ethic. They often move onto better employment, which is why service in places with poorly treated employees suffers.
*Any Idiot is not meant as an insult to customer service employees, many folks take these jobs to pay for education. However, companies that need employees often hire “any idiot.”

98

I agree with you altoid (and what a coincidink, I waitressed for 8 years as well!).

The thing I don’t get is everyone going on and on about how employees shouldn’t have to do any more than they’re paid to do. I for sure, and I haven’t noticed anyone else in this thread, haven’t asked for customer service people to do anything extra. I simply would like them to do their jobs.

For cryin’ out loud, it’s not like I was shooting at the feet of Smart & Final girl yelling “dance, counter girl, DANCE!” All I was asking was for a little courtesy. Maybe a “hello” in response to mine. And maybe, just maybe she could’ve told me my total. Anyone who thinks that’s bending over backwards has a really warped definition of “good” customer service.

Maybe I always worked in “higher end” establishments or whatever, but when I was working in customer service, if any of my managers caught me acting like that towards a customer, my ass would’ve been fired. Or I would’ve at least gotten a warning.

I’m sorry, this may make me sound like a bitch, but just because you’re working in a crap job doesn’t give you a free pass to be a total shit to your customers. It just doesn’t. You don’t need to be Ms. Susy Sunshine, but for Og’s sake, you don’t need to go out of your way to be rude, either.

We’ve got to draw the line somewhere or I’d hate to think about what the state of customer service will be like 5 or 10 years from now.

:frowning:

99

lezlers , I totally agree that you didn’t get good service. I’ve never heard of Smart & Final (a supermarket? a Walmart type thing?), so maybe I misunderstood the circumstances.

I guess CanvasShoes articulated it better than I did-- point is, the service I expect is proportional to the $ I’m spending. There’s a difference between a sit-down restaurant and a fast food place, and it seemed like most of the previous posts were referring to low wage, bottom rung jobs. Of course I expect better treatment at Nordstroms than at Sears.

Then again, maybe my standards are low because of my environment. I’m just happy to if there isn’t hair in my fries. Meh. It makes life easier. I have remarkably low blood pressure.:slight_smile:

100

That’s the thing though, I think saying “hi” when someone says “hi” to you, and telling someone what their total is, should be minimal standards at any store, resteraunt or what have you.

Those things are the bare minimums. You don’t stand there and give a customer a dirty look when they greet you.

Christ! There’s got to be some standards!