Do you remember this?
Precedent matters now? I guess I’ll be warned or banned since I don’t have the crowd behind me.
Do you remember that thread where you posted about “time outs” for members to cool off? Maybe you should check off the board for a bit.
I won’t lie, I’ve done this myself a couple of times. For me it really helps. If posting feels stressful take a break.
ETA: I say this as someone who doesn’t dislike you octopus, this isn’t a sneaky way to “get rid of” you.
I’ve made this point before and I will I am sure end up making it again - whether or not it does, the fact that your political leanings are under-represented on this board IMHO SHOULD give you slightly more slack than otherwise. Supply demand being what it is you are more valuable than another left of center moderate like me. Too few views from the Right and the GD and Elections discussions at least become mere self-affirmations. Meanwhile we have enough of the Far left to represent those perspectives
AND keeping this a place that facilitates actual discussions (rather than sniping or dishonestly shitting things up alone) cannot be lost. Outside of the Pit that has to be job one; diversity (political and gender and otherwise) a close second. Without actual discussions of substance the GD and Elections fora have nothing of real value to offer at all. Shut 'em down at that point. For however long the lights are on it is more for the other fora anyway. (Despite how self-important we who play in those fora think we are.)
Within the Pit discussion is secondary and sniping within some broad realm of human decency is the point. “The crowd” is how that broad realm of human decency is functionally defined dynamically. That is not based on political beliefs.
Anyway I’d think you’d be concerned about a crowd behind you … thinking they’d be carrying pitchforks and torches!
How’s the view from up on that cross? That you lovingly hand-crafted for yourself, I might add.
Fucking hell, why did you even bother to apologize? What a pathetic, shitty apology.
Thinking about the function of the Pit:
It seems to me that the Pit can serve two justifiable and useful functions:
One, to let people tackle issues about things in the world outside the Boards that are making them furious, without having to carefully watch every word that they say, including both the issues of swearwords and those of insults. As there are words that are out of bounds even in the Pit (the one starting with N comes to mind), it’s not entirely unreasonable that there might be insults that are also out of bounds even in the Pit, though working out which ones could well be tricky.
I think that can be a useful function, though I’m not sure that it’s necessary. I personally find it useful to have to put my anger into words that clarify the issues in my mind, even or maybe especially when my initial reaction to something is just ‘how seventeen-expletives dare they!’
Two, to let people call out other board members for, and to discuss, cases in which board members are or are perceived as lying, trolling, and/or bigoted, in a fashion that can’t be done just by reporting a post. Call it a non-moderators version of the mod loop, maybe?
I think this is a useful and important function; but that it might be even more useful if it were done without the use of, how do I say this, side insults? That is, calling somebody a liar is itself an insult; so it’s impractical to say that there should be some way to discuss the fact that a poster is, or is being perceived as, lying but it has to be done without insulting that poster. But it’s possible to call somebody a liar, as well as to respond indignantly to being so called, without throwing in a batch of gratuitous additional insults. The Pit currently allows the unconnected insults anyway, but also isn’t supposed to allow being a jerk; which is kind of a contradiction.
Allowing people to have a place to call out liars, trolls, and/or bigots, and to discuss why particular language looks like lying, trolling, and/or bigotry and whether or not particular posters deliberately used it that way, seems that it ought to discourage trolling and reduce bigoted language. And it allows people who aren’t mods to discuss such issues with the mods in conversations that involve multiple non-mod people who can see the whole conversation, which strikes me as being extremely useful. But allowing people to have a place to throw out random insults seems like it would encourage trolling and right-up-to-the-line use of bigoted language.
Do people here think it would be useful and possible to have a Pit that allows only the use of insults directly related to and necessary to the specific topic of the thread?
Moderator Note
You will be warned or banned because you keep doing something that you were told not to do. Whether or not you have the crowd behind you is irrelevant.
What happens on giraffeboard is giraffeboard’s problem. If you have a disagreement with them, deal with it on their board. Do not bring giraffe issues over here.
I like a good rant.
"seems that it ought to discourage trolling and reduce bigoted language.", no, it doesnt, not at all. I mean, troll wanna be fed and the Pit feeds them. In fact I think the Pit actually increases trolling, etc.
It will have to stand on its own. Take for whatever it’s worth.
The SDMB is what it is, and it isn’t gonna change.
Lots more, but upon edit, there’s no point.
Regards,
Shodan
And yet, oddly enough, the vast majority of trolling on this board occurs outside the Pit, in places where troll behavior is protected by the weird tangle of rules that mostly function to prevent those posting in good faith with challenging and identifying those who are trolling. I think they call this “irony” or something.
Disagree. It ticked all the boxes of what an apology is (acknowledgement, acceptance of responsibility, contrition, and resolve to do better going forward).
And I should HOPE that no one mistakes me for a Shodan umm, apologist (you should pardon the expression).
No one can force you to share your thought processes. So yes we will have to conclude what we do sans any additional insight from you. I remain glad that you realized that an apology was indicated even belatedly.
The second claim though is a clearly false statement. Well it is what it is, but it is a changing thing. One change is that there is now a more clearly articulated understanding of what behavior is in fact too reprehensible even in the Pit. And if octopus is correct the understanding now is different than how Ed Zotti had declared it to be. If that is a change, a break with precedent, that’s not a bad thing.
More dickery
Moderator Action
This is ATMB, not the Pit.
Since the issue has basically been resolved and we are getting too many comments like this, I am going to close this thread. If anyone believes that there are still outstanding issues that need to be discussed or has another compelling reason to re-open the thread, send me a PM and we can discuss it.
Thread closed.