In a Pit thread, Shodan taunts margin about the devastating case of PTSD she developed while serving in combat in Iraq. He’s intentionally inflicting pain on a person who experiences plenty of it. It was a throwaway line, completely unrelated to the thread. His only response to criticism was that he’s been taunting margin since 2011.
Is this really okay? Apart from death threats, is such reprehensible behavior on Shodan’s part really not worthy of a mod note if not a warning? I reported the post to Miller but he didn’t take any action or respond so I’m posting here.
I’ve gone at it in the Pit. Most people who post there do. But some things are beyond the pale, even when, as is the case with the Pit, the pale is pretty damn big.
I don’t know that there is a limit, but I, for one, am glad that Shodan showed us his true colors. Based on his behavior and statements, we can each make our own judgement about how much weight to give anything he says in the future. Perhaps this is a benefit to the Pit.
People used to think the Pit was just a place where you could use bad language and tell other people exactly what you thought of them, but just in recent weeks alone you will see people openly trolling and some examples of deeply personal insults being thrown about with impunity.
Forget the language used, it is the intent, and I don’t believe the Pit was ever intended to be a place to get away with absolutely anything a sick mind could dream of. Its a release valve for the board not an anything goes cesspit.
Its not about banned words or any of that shite, but there is absolutely no reason why Rule no.1 cannot apply in the pit.
Wait, people actually believe that a forum designed to allow posters to lie about, insult, and cyber bully other posters would act as a ‘safety valve’? Well, whoever set it up and created the rules obviously knows nothing about human nature. Or perhaps they did…
That said, as long as there is a Pit, I don’t see a problem with some people using it more effectively than others.
As demonstrated ably by bucketybuck, those behaviors are explicitly not allowed by the rules and so that was not how it was designed. It can be argued that those behaviors are nevertheless allowed to occur, though, which I believe is one of the big reasons why this thread was created.
I can’t blame you or anyone else for thinking that the Pit really is an “anything goes” kind of place, though, given what sometimes happens there. But I’ve seen warnings occur there and I’ve reported a couple of things Miller responded to so it really isn’t.
I’m fairly new here so I had no idea about Shodan or Margin before that thread.
It seems like most pit posters give as good as they get and it’s not hateful except regarding some very obvious trolls. In fact I like the banter and arguing and creative insults, and I’ve been following the Trump threads because people come up with a lot of good insights and news sources I never would have thought of.
But what Shodan said to Margin was meant to be hurtful. It’s like making dead baby jokes to someone who lost a child and is still mourning. It’s also a really goddamn hateful thing to say to ANY veteran with PTSD, someone who wanted to serve in the military and wound up living through some horrific shit that changed their life for the worse and that they might never recover from it.
It seems especially hateful considering all the problems with misogyny on this board.
I know there have been threads about female posters leaving, and having trouble attracting new members. If people like Shodan can get away with that kind of thing without any kind of censure in any forum that’s not the kind of board I want to spend my time on so this female poster is gone, too.
Don’t worry, I won’t let the door hit me in the butt.
Since I’ve been here the Pit rules have been selectively applied. Sometimes VERY CREATIVELY applied such as with regards to Huey Freeman. So, what is explicitly written from a decade or so ago and what is implicitly allowed and tolerated are two VERY different things. So perhaps, the design wasn’t to be uncivil but the practical consequence of the rules is that incivility is a feature and not a bug.
And frankly, that’s unavoidable. Aside from moderating in a way that would be ridiculous and show blatant favoritism, you cannot avoid grudges and escalations. You just can’t. Either people are going to leave due to the Pit, completely avoid the pit and be mocked for it, or rhetoric will get ‘uncivil.’ Which, like the so-called jerk rule is extraordinarily subjective.
I am quoting this post because it is very insightful and deserves to appear in this thread twice. Thank you for adding your voice to the conversation, despite being a newbie! And welcome
The thing is, the rules don’t say you must be civil, just “reasonably” civil. That’s obviously a subjective determination but moderating is by design and necessity a subjective thing. And it’s possible to be both subjective and fair; I like to think I’ve done that successfully at other boards I’ve moderated and in my time as a Wikipedia admin.
The way grudges and escalations are prevented is by a moderator stepping in if things are getting too far. That’s what is being asked for here.
Not sure if it violates the rules (and I think I reported it, but my phone was wonky yesterday), but Steophan called me a pedophile in that same thread:
Just to add to the “he knows perfectly well I have PTSD” discussion - when I Pitted the poster in question back in 2011, I asked specifically if she suffered from mental issues, and offered to back off if she did. I do not recall receiving any response.
Now obviously, this “don’t be a jerk” thing HAS been used several times as an enforceable rule. I’m not sure if the mods actually take notes on all these things, but there you have it from the horse’s mouth.
Now if things have changed I think it’d be fair to actually update the rules. It would also help that if they were actually consolidated into one place. This is like playing Magic the Gathering but with the rules scattered to the four winds.
Here’s what you said in the Pit thread (I don’t know how to quote from another thread):
"IANAL either, but you are confusing evidence with allegations. No one in their right mind (meaning people who are not like Babale and iiandyiiii) would say that a claim establishes itself.
Evidence would be more like if Ford said that five other people were there, including her best friend at the time, and all or some of them confirmed it. None of them did, so no evidence in favor of Ford’s story - the opposite, in fact.
And again, it is hard to have evidence about something when even the one making the accusation isn’t sure when or where it happened.
Regards,
Shodan
**PS - hi, margin - seems like you were gone for a while - welcome back! What’s it like in the psych ward - did you make friends there?"
**(emphasis added)
That’s an oddly specific insult for someone you didn’t know to suffer from a severe mental illness.
