Just want to make sure everyone is clear that the Bill of Rights were the People’s rights, not the states, not the state militia. (Gun related)

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@Czarcasm

The trouble with arguments involving laws, Amendments and the use of weaponry is that, when the people invoking said laws and Amendments to justify their ownership and use of weaponry are finally forced to say “In the end no law or Amendment is going to make me give up my weapons!”, I sort of feel that I have wasted a shitload of time arguing with people that are bullshitting me for their own amusement.

Now now, we don’t want absolutes in that. There are plenty of gun owners who DO fit the above (possibly, and even probably the majority of them) but there are plenty, including people on this board who think otherwise. See the discussion in this thread and many others about otherwise liberal / liberal-leaning gun owners.

But if we’re going to go back to first causes of what are your rights and where do they come from, @Babale did that thread a while back, and quite well just over a year ago:

What are Rights for? Where do they come from? Including 2nd Amendment

Inspired by a conversation from a pit thread. I don’t think that our disagreement is about gun rights at all. I think our disagreement is about something much more fundamental, something I hope to get at in this thread, by asking: what are rights for? In another thread, you said this: I don’t completely disagree with your statement here, but I think it is adjacent to the root disagreement. Rights (like rites, money, nation-states, religions, governments, families, ideologies, etc) are huma…