I would be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on Karen as a performer. Critiques and appreciations of her voice are common but I do not seem to run across much of anything dealing with her concert, music-video, and television performing talents and techniques.
Yet her persona and poise before an audience, or in front of just a camera, is every bit the equal in artistry with her voice, I feel. In the links below she moves around a television stage set as she sings, but Carpenters videos range from her feet being planted in one spot for an entire song to sequences in which she actually runs from one drum set to another. The common thread is that she’s always interesting and entertaining, and often moving. She never disappoints.
This link is Top of the World, from “The Carpenters’ Very First Television Special” (1976)
This is a medley from their last TV special, “Music, Music, Music” (1980)
What is it in her movements and expressions that can bring a viewer into such emotional involvement? And I’m curious as to what percentage of people’s familiarity with Karen is from seeing her sing on film and how much is owing to the records only? In my own case, seeing her perform vastly increased my regard for her.
I came to appreciate Karen only very very recently – I mean weeks – because I had only ever heard the songs and never saw her perform. I had last seen the Carpenters in the late 60’s on some television show when they were brand new. My main recollection was, of course, that striking image of a girl drummer who was singing lead.
I’m only really discovering Karen Carpenter now that local radio stations have gone to all Christmas music formats, and they seem to plat a LOT of covers from the Carpenters. I think she has a very nice voice.
My opinion of Ms. Carpenter could not be more polar opposite of yours. Rather than poop on this thread - although the title implies you want opinions, and not just from fans - may I ask what you find engaging/ appealing about her? I realize taste is subjective and not really explainable, but given my thoughts when I see or hear her, I would like to know, specifically what a fan enjoys about her.
Her voice is beautiful, and I think that is the main thing that attracts people to it. You may or may not like the style of the Carpenters, but her voice, considered in isolation is generally considered a nearly perfect example of a contralto. Her skill as a drummer was praised by giants like Hal Blaine and Buddy Rich.
I was introduced to them seriously when I was learning to engineer audio. Back in the 1970s, they produced some of best engineered albums, astonishingly well-recorded. Walk the floors of an audio convention like AES and you’ll hear The Carpenters.
None of these have any bearing on whether or not you’ll like their work.
I only watched the first 3 minutes of your second video and I thought her moves were stiff and old-fashioned. But I had never considered her stage moves before nor am I likely to to do again. They don’t affect my opinion of her one way or another.
I think she has an outstanding voice and was very attractive up until that last year or so. However, I hate all of the songs they played and sang. Slight props to “Close To You”, cancelled out by “calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft”. Once again, stiff and old-fashioned. When they were current, they were meant for someone maybe a decade older than me (18). As I’ve grown older, I’ve grown into Frank Sinatra but soft-rock still eludes me.
Her voice would have been wasted on rock, so I can’t fault her.
As for her stage moves, Richard Carpenter is, and always has been, stiff and old fashioned. He limited Karen in so many ways, defining what would and would not be “The Carpenters”.
Thanks for answering without taking offense. I have no knowledge of the technical aspect of engineering or voice. I do like their style and a few of their songs, but something about her style of singing absolutely sets my teeth on edge.
I wouldn’t otherwise dream of offering my negative opinion except for the fact that there have been a few threads praising her and I just want to try and “get it”.
The way she tilts her head to one side is kind of endearing, but Karen Carpenter won’t be remembered for her stagecraft. Nor should she, with a voice like that.
Had she come along 20 years or so earlier, she would have been in the era of the solo female singer, would have had her choice of material from the Great American Songbook and would be remembered at the same level as Peggy Lee, Rosemary Clooney and a handful of others.
The 70’s seemed to have a lot of great female singers who were completely out of place with the prevailing music of the decade. In addition to Karen Carpenter, I’d suggest Cass Elliott, Toni Tenille, Bette Midler and Ann Murray.
The sorry state of the various Wikipedia entries made me look for references, and I found Randy L. Schmidt’s Little Girl Blue: The Life of Karen Carpenter and read the chapter on the production of her attempted solo album. It was her attempt to escape the cage the record company and her brother had built, and the scene where they listen to what she and producer Phil Ramone had made is heartbreaking.
The record company had given her $100,000 to record an album (not very much in those days, especially to hire a name producer and top talent) and she spent $400,000 of her own money to finish it. The Carpenters had completed their existing contract, and were ready to re-sign, and that was what A&M wanted - the Carpenters, not a solo Karen Carpenter album, so her brother and the record company utterly slagged the album and any attempt to re-define herself. And left her to pay the $400k.
Forgot to add: She covered songs by Billy Joel and Paul Simon, and both insisted on playing on her cover. There are a lot of musicians who are beloved by other musicians in ways that the latters’ fans might not get. Like the number of rock guitarists who idolized Les Paul, who kept playing in an old-fashioned style.
The song she finishes up at the 3 minute point is the Bacharach/David composition Knowing When to Leave. I’m a B/D fan so Karen treating the song and medley with flair and style warms my heart. Even though Dionne Warwick sang many of the B/D hits wonderfully, I have always thought Karen was born to cover those songs again, and definitively if Richard arranged them.
What you see as ‘stiff’ and ‘old-fashioned’ I see as elegant and timeless. I do see why you say those things though - on viewing the video again with that in mind - and it’s interesting that you pick up on it because I have heard Karen described as childlike in some ways but at the same time as “a being [noun] in possession of an old soul,” meaning she gives the impression through her voice alone of having experienced every line she ever sang.
I’m interested in dissenting views because I want to find out how much of my appreciation and delight is objective and the percentage of people who share it.
I think a big part of her appeal is the way she connects with her audience. If you notice, she’s going way more than half the way to make a connection. She’s taking all kinds of risks to reach out to a possibly lethargic, distracted spectator and invite them to participate in the aura she’s weaving, using an formidable array of facial expressions, smiles and body language. She’s doing most of the work in the performer/audience relationship - at first anyway - but she soon transforms spectator to participant. I respond to that kind of warm, inviting - needy in a way - interest by rising to do my part and connect with her on some level, to give her what she’s asking for.
I have to agree with Nunzio, and I watched both videos.
It all seemed so rigidly choreographed, I got no sense at all of a natural flow. It was far too calculated.
The first video was very strange. Don’t get me wrong – I absolutely love her voice, but their look… They looked like guest performers on The 700 Club, especially Richard with that pasted on smile. Or to be more charitably, guests on The Lawrence Welk Show. They seemed completely out of touch with the times.
One more criticism – the sound. Most likely both were overdubbed or lip synched, as there was not the smallest hint of ambient sound from the stage they were performing on. It’s something that kinds of leaps out at me and makes them both seem much more artificial.
I have a dozen or so of their songs on my iPod, and there is nothing about either of the linked performances that make me want to expand my collection to videos. I’d have to say I had the diametrically opposite reaction as the OP, to me the videos distract and detract from the quality of her singing.
At the time, genuine live performances on TV shows were a rarity. When coupled with their perfectionism, they would prefer to lip sync to a perfect studio recording than try to recapture it.
I can’t speak for the OP, but for me, when I ask for opinions I really like the exchange of opinions. But I too often hold back from expressing negative opinions in threads for fear of crapping in them.
As far as Karen: I always thought she had an amazing voice. One of the things I lament regularly (probably making me officially old) is that there are so few good voices in music today.
I didn’t like all their music, but I certain enjoyed many of their songs.
(Maybe I should start a thread asking who has the best voices in today’s music.)
This whole thread makes me wonder just how much of Karen’s performing was controlled by others, and how much she was “allowed” to do on her own.
That might be a contributing factor to her eventual fatal battle with anorexia–victims of that disease feel like their body is the only thing in their lives they can control.
~VOW
Read the book I referenced and you’ll see that you are exactly on mark. When she died, anorexia was much more obscure and she put a face on it for many Americans.
I did search the SDMB and read that thread a week or so ago. The link in Post #8 of that thread is a collection of drumming clips, roughly chronological, in which you can see Karen changing as a performer. Early in the clip where she’s in a yellow dress sitting at the drums with a white band in her hair, she performs like any other drummer, rarely smiling or looking at the audience, seeming to be concentrating on drumming. By the time of the Carpenters’ first big hits her attention was completely off of the drums and reflecting the lyrics alone. This is one of her signature talents, to act out the emotions of sad or wistful ballads compellingly using only her face and upper body with both feet and hands occupied drumming. In the link below, I’m not saying the drumming’s anything special, here at least, but watch her face, especially late in the song. So much is going on. She’s moving her head, changing her expressions so very sublty and often, and selling the lyrics with her eyes. Sometimes on longer notes she goes through a whole range of emotions. A constantly changing expressiveness is the rule. You can’t take your eyes off her to look at anyone else in the band because you’ll miss something she’s communicating. She’s 20 here, by the way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woKKnEn8h9w
When she later came out from behind the drums to front the group her expressiveness improved only in the sense that she could now use both arms, sway her torso, make those unique, delicate movements with her hands, and use the microphone as an expressive prop. But a lot of the expressiveness and communication with the audience had already appeared in the period she was still behind the drum set.
She didn’t have overwhelming power on the drums but had perfect timing, could play exotic time signatures, and was more than adequate for all Carpenters material. She had been playing professionally since 16.
Here is an example of how, even when she played drums alone, without singing, her focus was on showmanship. Her dancing movements are beautiful to watch also. The girl had many talents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7gMIZCpc0o
I saw them in concert. She was a product of her time, is all. That’s what stagecraft looked like then largely. That’s the way it was being done, unfortunately.
An enormous talent, but repressed by expectations at the time, the image her brother/record company had so carefully crafted became a prison for her.
I want to speak to a few of the negative comments that have accumulated but first let me clarify my own position. I had always been familiar with all Carpenters singles (or I should say most - I had never heard 1981’s Those Good Old Dreams until just the other day) and had always thought well of Richard’s arrangements and Karen’s voice, but in the most casual uninvolved way. I never owned any of their albums. In the culture wars let’s just say I was affected by John Lennon’s death in 1980 but Karen’s in 1983 barely registered a blip on my radar.
Then just a few weeks ago I was browsing the web and for some reason clicked on a Carpenters video, I forget which one now. As it loaded I remember wondering, first, exactly what does Karen look like? – I was really unfamiliar – then I recall wondering what type of performance I was about to witness, thinking it would probably be tentative, self-conscious, second-rate, and she might look sickly. Well, within the next three minutes she had completely blown me away to the point where now Icerigger’s comment can apply to me. I get seriously choked up whenever I hear a Carpenters song.
The natural question to myself then arises, “What happened? What changed?” For forty years I knew and liked all the important Carpenters songs. I knew the ins and outs of Karen’s death and Richard’s tragic life too. Back in the early 90’s, in fact, I remember reading Ray Coleman’s authorized Carpenters biography not because I was a fan but because I hoped to get some insight into Karen’s puzzling downfall.
The only thing that changed, as far as I can see, is that I viewed Karen perform a song. Then another and then another. It doesn’t matter how much I watch her, there never appear any holes or thin spots in her perfection. Everything I see from whatever time period it was filmed strengthens my conviction that this child/woman was the greatest pop singer of all time.
Another odd thing is that I really don’t think any of the songs themselves are great. (On second thought I do think Top of the World is perfect in every way.) Many of them, I know, I wouldn’t listen to twice if it wasn’t Karen singing them. But that was always the case and not just since I have become a dedicated fan. A good example is Icerigger’s link above to Superstar. To begin with I could never stand the gross overuse of “baby” in rock and pop songs. To use WOOKINPANUB’s phrase in Post 7, it sets my teeth on edge. Superstar abuses that word dozens of times, in packs of five in succession, repeated in each of the three choruses. Yet I have never been able to turn away from this song if Karen is singing it.
I’m thankful to Outrigger for posting such a carefully chosen video of the many out there. This particular performance of Superstar is the iconic example of a soulful Karen Carpenter performance.
You make comparisons to Paul Simon & Billy Joel without seeming to realize that they are also performing the type of soft rock that I and others dislike from the Carpenters. I don’t think you gain many points by comparing her to similar performers.
Joel at least tried (unsuccessfully IMO) to increase the adrenaline in his later albums. Karen Carpenter’s superb voice could be a disadvantage in presenting her music to those who resisted it, whereas Paul Simon was a poor singer and his flaws made his music more universal and endearing. The reason Gazrfunkel sang all those songs was because Simon couldn’t stand the way he sounded. Karen Carpenter’s was too perfect for others to make the same connection.
As has been said, Karen Carpenter could have been a big star ten or fifteen years earlier but she was not what a many people were looking for in the early Seventies. She was part of a trend for soft rock that included the aforementioned Anne Murray, Bette Midler, Eagles etc. I feel that that style of music was designed to appeal to those in their late Twenties and older. Those who had grown up with Nat King Cole, Pat Boone, Connie Francis etc. It was also a stopping off point for those who had grown up with traditional country and didn’t want to follow the
more rock-based country that was emerging. I was a teenager in the late Sixties/early Seventies and I reviled soft rock. Very few would dispute that she could sing well but some take issue with the songs that she was doing. Those choices were probably at the direction of her record company.
I resist the tactic of making her a victim of anything but her own choices. Millions of folks are brought down by the choices necessary to maintain a paycheck. Her death from anorexia resulted from her being mentally ill, and while her brother and record company may have contributed to her stress, she brought herself down. In 2012, we know very little about treating mental illness, it is difficult to lay blame on anyone. Thirty years ago, we knew even less.
