Rilchiam
I agree with what you say. Of course if an artist wants to make a statement about war or politics that is fine with me. If an artist wants people to participate and add to (or subtract from) a particular work but people should not alter the art.
BUT
Then you say this.
I’m pretty sure that you are of voting age and that you live in a democracy. What you think does indeed count. (if you vote gets counted properly)
But Monet was controversial. People thought his blotches of color didn’t show any craftsmanship, and people didn’t approve of Degas because he wouldn’t do portrature. People thought a lot of this was realy ugly stuff at the time.
Umm, you place far too much emphasis on controversy as a measure of a work of art’s worth. Moreover, you seem to inject the adjective “controversial” into each artist’s careeer even wheere there is no evidence for such a claim, as in Da Vinci.
The Impressionist painters were met with some initial scorn by the popular press (the word “Impressionism” was coined by the reporter Louis Leroy in his review of Monet’s seascape Impressions: soleil levant [rising sun], but their new style of capturing light on canvas gained favor among the public quickly.
I saw this particular installation in 1998 and again in 2000, and I don’t recall ever seeing anything to do with Iraq in it. My vote goes for “Someone stuck it there”.
The badge just rubbed me the wrong way at the wrong time. I am not speaking for anyone else here, but I, personally, am getting bombarded with talk about Iraq. It’s on every channel. It’s on every talk radio show. My mom sends me daily e-mails telling me what she thinks of Dubya. It’s currently Friend’s number-one conversational topic, supplanting wrestling and music. It’s the subject of dozens of threads here on SDMB. No, I don’t read what I don’t want to read, but a thread can start off about one thing, and before you know it, it turns into a thread about Iraq. Even the Eliz. Smart threads have had people saying things like “Well, I’m glad this story has a happy ending, 'cause god knows the Iraq story sure won’t.” It’s all I bloody hear. Well, that and American Idol 
I just needed a respite from all that.
Zebra, I am of voting age. But I’ve cast my votes. I’ve sent my e-mails to elected officials, and I’ve called into Larry Elder and Dennis Praeger, before the discussions became redundant. Now we’re past the point where any form of protest can do anything. Absolutely no offense to people here who did participate in protests. You did what you could when you could. But now the only thing anyone can do is watch as the train picks up speed.
I didn’t realize how frustrated I was until I did see this thing. I am not an ostrich. I do not like Thomas Kinkade. But thank you, susan and gobear, for pointing out that it’s acceptable to appreciate some art simply for its aesthetics.
Eve: I’ll admit that some modern art is a cop out. In fact, part of my enjoyment of it is seeing Mr. Rilch’s reaction to it! Because that’s what some modern artists are trying to do: simply piss people off for the sake of it. Of course, there was the inevitable canvas-painted-all-one-color-except-it-was-a-funny-shape-and-had-some-shading-at-the-bottom. But Mr. Rilch actually liked the garden-hoses-welded-together-to-look-like-a-wave! And the “100 Boots” photos. Grudgingly, he admitted that using non-traditional media can sometimes be creative. And, if you ask me, our attempts to define the line between modern art and what results when you turn a child loose with a bunch of random objects was a challenging and worthwhile discussion.
Watcher: I also saw a white cube with a tiny plaque on it that said “Please do not touch”. Eyes narrowed, I tiptoed forward to look at the artists name and title…and saw a notice that whatever had been there, had been taken away for refurbishing. “Well, okay,” I said. “Not even I would have been able to defend a plain white cube.”
furlibusea: I’m not saying that art is always and only supposed to make you “comfortable”. And I’m aware of controversy! Listen, there was another installation that showed a 1938 Ford, with beer bottles scattered on the fake grass around it. Inside (the door was open) were more beer bottles, and a sculpture of a woman sprawled out on the back seat. A chicken-wire (except for shoes on the “feet”) figure of a man was on top of her, groping her lewdly.
The placard explained that this was created in 1966. City officials objected to it on grounds of obscenity. The LACMA trustees refused to remove it. The city officials threatened to close down the entire museum if it wasn’t removed, so the trustees compromised. The door would remain closed, to be opened by a guard if everyone in the room was over 18. So there’s your controversy. And if I’d been around in 1966, I would have been on the side of the trustees and the artist. I’m glad they told us of that bit of history: it shows how far we’ve come since then*. If, today, city officials objected to a pro/anti-war statement that was an intentional element of something in LACMA, I would again side with the trustees. But I’m not gonna defend a vandal. He can create his own art if he wants to make a statement.
I’m also not gonna debate the relative worth of Guernica vs. Water Lilies, because my rant wasn’t about art: it was about some smartass who added their own propaganda to something that didn’t have a political message. Weirddave, you nailed it.
*I also wonder how many of those city officials found reasons to examine the installation, or photos of it, again and again and again, to make sure that it was unacceptable…
So what did you think of the whole shebang, Smapti? Just curious!
I agree with you there. I spent 20 years working professionaly in theatre and sometimes get a little too reactionary about the dumbing down of art just to get an audience. I don’t realy have a problem with doing the light stuff its just sometimes that anything else gets pushed out so that there will be sales. There realy is room just asthetics I just sometimes get fed up when thats all there is, and sometimes even that gets pushed out.
I agree 100%
I was in the San Bernardino County Museum with my mother and Grandmother. There are exhibits of local flora and fauna, geology, antiques, history, etc. In one corner was an African exhibit. No other place other than San Bernardino County had an exhibit anywhere else in the museum. What the hell that was doing in a Museum dedicated to local history, I have no idea. I can only conjecture that it was done for PC purposes, but it was absurd and offensive to all of us.
Oh brother. :rolleyes: I’ll bet anything that they had to do that in order to keep getting grant money.
Oh, and furlibusea: Okay then!
Wow. I really liked this one but I couldn’t fully wrap my mind around why the arms are up and what emotion is being expressed on the face.
I’m sure people do leave things behind, intentionally, in Central Meridian.
I know and love that exhibit. I’m raising my morning coffee cup to The Temple Of Cosmic United Atoms Revealed right now.
*other dopers wander about scratching their heads, saying to themselves, “L.A…that explains it”.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gobear *
**
So her reaction was wrong?, there’s a wrong reaction to art?
<hi-brow frech artist>
Eve To me a 1967 Shelby GT-500 E Mustang is art, to others its just an old car …
The OP wasn’t looking at Guernica sinse she was in LA and not Madrid. And I’m not saying that there are necessarily wrong reactions to art, but. . . Guernica is a cry of grief and horror in rection to the bombardment of a Basque village during the Sapnish Civil War. Over the course of three days, 1600 noncombatants were killed or wounded. “Serenity and wonderment”, IMO, would be an inappropriate reaction to this painting, just as much as someone getting “a feeling of peace” form watching 9/11 footage.
hmph,
I must be a simpleton when I look at that painting all I’m thinking is WTF? If I hadn’t read: "It is modern art’s most powerful antiwar statement… " I would think “man this guy is a nut job”
I’m guessing that
a) that people are told before hand what this piece represents,and who painted it so they could say “oohh yes that is a powerful peice”
b) there are those who do get a feeling of peace and serenity from watching 9-11 footage…
Whats my point? helephino Im an artist…
Well, the woman screaming in agony and the horse blown apart should clue in the viewers that they aren’t looking at Le Petit Dejeuner Sur L’herbe.
Did you see it in Madrid, Tony? All I can say is that the impression that that enormous canvas makes is devastating. I burst into tears and had to leave the gallery. A small reproduction just can’t communicate it.
Good point, the link gobear supplied is the only time I’ve seen it …
To be fair, it’s not just a “pile of crap”, but a “pile of crap that really makes you wonder about the person it belonged to”. You encounter things that are just – slightly off, but not horrifying or obviously disturbing. For example, there are no Nazi insignia, nor a KKK uniform hanging on the wall, but just oddities. My reference above, to the “Temple Of Cosmic United Atoms Revealed” refers to a sign with those words nailed to the wall, featuring a little atom graphic and, if memory serves, a lab flask to symbolize “science”. You just have to experience it before you dismiss it. Really, I expected that a published author living and working in the cultural capital of the Western World would not be so quick to dismiss it out of hand.
To be fair, it’s not just a “pile of crap”, but a “pile of crap that really makes you wonder about the person it belonged to”. You encounter things that are just – slightly off, but not horrifying or obviously disturbing. For example, there are no Nazi insignia, nor a KKK uniform hanging on the wall, but just oddities. My reference above, to the “Temple Of Cosmic United Atoms Revealed” refers to a sign with those words nailed to the wall, featuring a little atom graphic and, if memory serves, a lab flask to symbolize “science”. You just have to experience it before you dismiss it. Really, I expected that a published author living and working in the cultural capital of the Western World* would not be so quick to dismiss it out of hand.
*unless I’ve got you confused with someone else, that is.