You might want to inform the Mounties of these wonderful tools, doubtless they would find them useful. I Googled “RCMP border patrol” and the first hit was this website, the homepage of a RCMP detachment in Salaberry-de-Valleyfield Quebec, on the Canada/US border. Fortuitously enough, it includes a phone number, so I gave them a call. After getting the Mountie who answered to switch from French to English, I asked him my question. “If a person was passing across the border who was scheduled to appear in a Canadian court, say for assault, next week, would there be any way for the Mounties questioning the man to know that?” The answer was "No, such information is in the court’s systems, but not in the RCMP’s. " He went on to explain that there are RCMP liaisons stationed in the courts that could deliver a specific request for information to the courts and then have them look it up, but this was a process that took a bit of time, not a quick check that could be done at the border. So, we’re back where we started. Even if the US Border Patrol had called the RCMP, the RCMP couldn’t have given them any reason to hold the man, unless they detained him for several days to give them time to run down the court records. Are you claiming that the mere posession of a selection of legal objects is enough justification for holding him for those several days?
Now now, Weirddave…are you going to add to the discussion or just continue being snarky?
As I said, my personal experience indicates otherwise. The VPD ascertained my status w/r/t the CJ system in a few minutes.
Checking to make sure that this is not a trick of memory, I looked around a bit:
[quote]
The CPIC database is a compilation of police information and court decisions. Information collected in the CPIC database includes individuals who:
[ul][li]have a criminal record for any Criminal Code or other Federal [/li]Statute offence and/or[li]have been judged not criminally responsible for an offence because of mental disorder and/or[]have federal and/or provincial charges pending and/or[]are on probation or subject to a Prohibition Order.[/ul][/li][/quote]
(PDF link)This can be reconciled with what the gendarme told you in that the database may not include the specifics of the court date. CPIC is accessible by all Canadian law enforcement.
No, but he didn’t “mere possession of a selection of legal objects.” Despres was under a Prohibition order.“Prohibited weapons” include:
Prohibition order aside, he was in possession of a banned weapon. Brass knuckles are illegal in Canada. Period. If they were concerned by the bloody chainsaw and all, he could have been arrested on the spot.
Even leaving aside communicating with other authorities to confirm illegal behaviour, what about a psych evaluation?
The guy was armed to the teeth, bloodied up, and exhibited signs of being delusional.
He later told the judge he worked for NASA. He tended to talk to himself for hours. I have a hard time believing that he came across as sane in his two-hour interview. This sounds like someone who might pose a threat to themselves or others. He must’ve had a huge honkin’ SEP field around him that day.
Larry, I read your PDF link, and it doesn’t say what you are representing it to say at all. It’s all about Police Record Checks for hiring purposes, while it does indicate that the CPIC database is as you’ve represented it, nowhere does it say that it is a centrally located database accessible at a single point. I very much get the impression from that pamphlet that it’s a collection of databases, all of which are checked in the process of running a formal police record check. It even says that one would bring in the application and submit it for processing. Dude, that’s not a comprehensive quickly searchable database at all.
However, I’ll tell you what. Why don’t you call the RCMP and ask them if they have the capabilities you’re assigning to them yourself and see what they say, then report back here. In your case it’s a local call, mine was international!
After reading this thread and having thought about this for quite a bit today after I saw this article in the newspaper I guess my confusion about the actions of the Border Patrol has to do with the brass knuckles. Someone stated they are illiegal in Canada. Am I to assume they are legal in the U.S.? I’ve always been under the impression they are.
O.K. I should have done the Google search first. This website –here-- sells these items but indicates that they can’t be shipped to California, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York and Illinois. [I assume they are illegal there.] They also suggest that you should check with the local District Attorney’s office about whether they are legal in your jurisdiction. So while everything he was carrying was legal apparently he was carrying one item that was illegal in the country he was coming from and in large regions of the country he was entering. Shouldn’t that have tipped somebody off that he might need closer scrutiny?
I’m familiar with CPIC. Way back in the eighties, my parents’ drunken cop friends would access it through my home computer for the general entertainment and nosiness of all concerned. Great fun.
It really is an instantly accessible comprehensive database, Dave. That business of application forms is for non-law-enforcement folks wanting record checks. It’s a single database.
You log on and you’ve got a nice little search engine to work with. It’s neat. And instant.
Some cars are equipped with mobile access. Most cars have to call in their queries over the radio. Anyone with authorization and access to the internet or a modem can make queries. Instantly.
Who has authorization, besides the RCMP? Oh, look.
Well, lookee there. No need to even make a call. No waiting for paperwork.
On reflection, it seems likely that U.S. Customs might have limited access to CPIC – they may have had to coordinate with Canadian authorities to get the full record. Still – a quick phone call.
Okay. More information.
U.S. Customs did talk to the R.C.M.P. – and did learn that Despres was due in court that day to face charges for assault and threatening. Jayson Ahern of U.S. Customs says that the R.C.M.P. said that they couldn’t take action yet because, hey, it was early and he still might show up in court.
According to the extradition documents, a failure-to-appear warrant was issued at 10:00am, and Despres was released at 10:30am. Ahern says that Despres was released at 9:30am.
What we have here is a failure to communicate. Calais police “determined that his weapons were legal.” (In Maine.)
You have a guy who you know has a court date in a matter of hours for a violent crime. He is clearly delusional, carrying weapons and wearing armour, and claims to be a Marine who works for George Bush and is waiting to be picked up by a helicopter.
I think everyone involved knew he wasn’t planning on making his court appearance. If the R.C.M.P. shrugged it off, they should get the blame. But with the information available, it would have been possible to keep him from entering the U.S. without abridging his rights.
He was still in Canada. If the RCMP knew that he was carrying brass knuckles, he could have been arrested and charged, and a violent offender would have stayed in Canada to face justice, instead of being allowed to roam freely through the United States. Oh yeah, and he’d have been knicked for the double murder in less time, as a bonus.
Your not comfortable with an extending the interview long enough for the warrant to come through? Fine – but I never screamed human-rights abuses in the instances when I spent twice as long going through customs. I grumbled about it, yeah, but whaddya gonna do if they’re not totally comfortable with you for one reason or another? They had plenty of questions they could have asked him.
But you know he’s planning on fleeing his court date, and you ought to know that people can be arrested for possessing brass knuckles in Canada. You’ve got an easy out, unless you really want a guy on the run from the law to take refuge in your country and start threatening and assaulting U.S. citizens.
You know this applies to 46 (is it 47 now?) states, in one form or another, right?
You, sir, must have a magnificently lavish vagina.
Larry Mudd, thanks for the info. If only others would contribute as much to the board as you have. wring (and others), no, he was *not * carrying only legal items with him, got it?
What a sad, twisted lie. There’s no point in getting angry at a kid who doesn’t know any better yet, though.
what was illlegal? the brass knuckles appear to have been legal in the US, granted they weren’t in CA where he’d been, but the US guards aren’t responsible for enforcing Canadian laws. The guards state they checked ‘everything they could’ and didn’t find anything. They detained him for 2 hours. There are limits to how long a citizen in the US can be detained before it becomes custodial (ie an arrest).
There was an interesting article in my local paper today, but I’m not positive if it can be accessed without a subscription.
Here are some excerpts (I’ve omitted details of the crimes he’s committed since links have already been posted).
Ah, right. U.S. law starts at Customs. :smack:
I still don’t think it would have been untoward to hold onto him for another hour or so. They knew he was fleeing a court appearance – why didn’t they talk to him about that? Apparently, he told Border Security that the work he was doing for George Bush was “wet work.”
U.S. Customs spokeswoman Janet Rapaport was unfazed by this. She says she doesn’t know if he said that, but even if he did…
She seems to be defensively talking out of her ass:
No warrant – until a half-hour before or after he was allowed into the U.S., depending on who you talk to. Nothing outstanding? Nothing except the court appearance for a violent crime that he was supposed to be at. No, no criminal history. Except for the latest incident of attacking someone with a knife, on top of a long history of violent and threatening behavior.
Oh, so he was carrying a bloody chainsaw and a sack of weapons, was wearing a bullet-proof-vest, said it was his job to kill people for the President, had a history of assault and threats of murder, and was manifestly on the run from Canadian authorities. No cause for concern there. Mustn’t hold him up. He’s got places to go. People to do.
Godspeed, Assassin-to-the-President. wink
Good thing you have so much paint on that brush that you’re able to paint as far up from Texas to Michigan as well, another ‘Concealed Carry State’ - and a red one last election as well. Having a gun doesn’t make you a gun nut, neither does desiring to conceal it legally on your person for whatever personal reason of protection; to qualify for Rabid 2nd Amendment Screamer status, you have to be crazy. And the right to bear arms and probable cause are in fact TWO separate amendments. You had me agreeing w/ you, EL1ves, until you went off and got snarky about something unrelated and unsupporting.
I think I’m starting to understand what ‘strawman’ means.
Hey Larry, I’m curious as to why you’re not reserving some of your vitriol for the RCMP. He had to talk to them before getting to the U.S. side, didn’t he? Why didn’t they arrest him? After all, he was carrying a weapon that’s illegal in Soviet Canuckistan (;)), and was about to miss a court case in their jurisdiction. Furthermore, he was fleeing a crime committed in their country. Shouldn’t everything you’ve just said apply to the Mounties as well?
I don’t know that I’m being particularly vitriolic toward anyone. Just countering your argument that everything that could be done was done, and this played out in a reasonable way.
As for the RCMP’s shared responsibility, I’ve pointed that out more than once:
Fair is fair.
In a word: “No.”
There is no requirement to talk to the RCMP before you leave Canada. Where did you pick up that idea?
Hey, waitaminute! Are you channelling Despres? 
Also note in that article that the clothes he was described as wearing during his interview with Customs were observed to be stained with (what one assumes is) blood when he was arrested.
I’d bet my eye teeth that the blood is matched to Fulton and Decaire, and not picked up Stateside.
while that may be probable, the article actually states
. Droplets on a blue hooded sweatshirt and green flak jacket, several red/brown stains. and that was after they’d been aware of a murder and would presumably be looking for it. There’s no claim that the stains were easily observable, so I wouldn’t fault the original guards for missing them.
Pardon me if I am unswayed by the suggestion that a heavily-armed, delusional man with a known history of violent offenses involving weapons should not naturally be scrutinized at the border closely as, say, someone with a twenty-year-old record for possession of marijuana is, as a matter of routine.
“He’s wearing a flak jacket and prepared for something that requires a small offensive arsenal, pepper spray and restraint devices? Carrying a bloody chainsaw? Clearly out of your mind? Running from prosecution in Canada for threatening to kill someone after assaulting them with a knife? Giving obviously false statements to border security? Never mind that, we’ve got Deadheads to strip-search. No time to notice little details like blood on the clothes he’s wearing.”