Kentucky Man Shoots Drone, Gets Arrested

Great Debates
301

A line from a Ben Folds song comes to mind when I see you doing these gymnastics with the language:

“And I twisted it wrong just to make it right.”

Are you even aware that there’s an actual conversation going on? Or are you too happy with yourself for delving into Bill Clinton-era “definition is ‘is’ is?”

One person’s hyperbolic comment (which others had mentioned in other posts before, also for comedic effect) is now going to be scrutinized and compared to another poster’s that was unrelated to the hijack, and on point to the actual issue. Have you found that pony yet in that pile you keep creating?

302

(post shortened)

Who the heck is Ben Folds and what type of drone does he fly?

303

(post shortened. capitalization eliminated.)

304

I am pretty sure you have been whooshed.

305

This is Ben Folds. Not my typical listen but given the next lines, maybe he is the drone?

:slight_smile:

So reviewing … There is no evidence that the drone was observing the shooter’s homestead in anyway. It is unclear how far above the ground the drone was. The shooter “didn’t know” but imagined some possibilities that a drone transiently hovering over his property might be looking for something to steal or looking at his girls playing on their deck and felt that his imaginations were sufficient cause to destroy that which triggered his fantasies. On the grounds of being called an “SOB” for having done that he claims to have threatened the owners of said drone with fatal force if they stepped across his sidewalk. I am picturing him puffing out his chest as makes that claim. He was never threatened at any time.

Again even if the drone had imaged his yard with its wide angle lens, there is no legal expectation of privacy that was violated.

Even if his daughters were, hypothetically, hella hot babes who were sunbathing.

What’s the debate again?

306

What debate?

307

You’re supposed to say, “post shortened”.

Not reported.

308

You know, now you’ve elaborated on the Ben Folds reference, the first 2 lines of the second verse seem appropriate, as well, to some the pedantry that exists in this thread.

309

A few folks have been putting cameras on kites and airplanes since the late 1800s - However, about 15 years ago the availability of
automatic 35mm cameras and then small digital cameras made it practical for many people to apply it to a wide variety of applications:

Wildlife monitoring, Archeological site mapping, Crop evaluation, Forestry surveys, Controlled burn monitoring, Search and Rescue,
Scenic photography, Bio research, Construction site security, Police accident investigation, Bird flight research, Real Estate photography,
UAV development.

Most of these activities were engaged in by volunteers or as individual activity of employees. Two applications attracted the attention of the
FAA - Real Estate Photography and UAV development. Both commercial and both conducted in urban areas. Both were being done under
the guise of flying ‘Model Airplanes’.

The FAA clarified the definition of model airplane as a recreational activity conducted at recreational areas defined by the Academy of Model Aeronautics.
Everything else is commercial and requires FAA certification.

The FAA levied a fine of $10,000 on a guy named Trappy for violating the FAA guidelines. The fine was challenged in court and a judge found that
the FAA could not fine Trappy because the FAA had not followed proper procedures.

Congress directed the FAA to follow proper procedures and create guidelines that met the needs of all the applications listed above, resulting in:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEgQFjACahUKEwih0--TuYvHAhVFrIAKHWUgBF4&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faa.gov%2Fuas%2Ffaq%2F&ei=jJm-VaHdLcXYggTlwJDwBQ&usg=AFQjCNFPvdcFfLvh78UjSHJMZ3X5g-dVLQ&sig2=3V8cqULGyUZfscWMX9W-nw

FAA comments on the guidelines provide some examples:

Hobby or Recreation_________Flying a model aircraft at the local model aircraft club field.
Commercial__________________Receiving money for demonstrating aerobatics with a model aircraft.
Hobby or Recreation_________Taking photographs with a model aircraft for personal use.
Commercial__________________Using a model aircraft to photograph a property and using the photos in the property’s real estate listing.
Commercial__________________A person photographing a property or event and selling the photos to someone else.
Hobby or Recreation_________Using a model aircraft to move a box from point to point without any kind of compensation.
Commercial__________________Delivering packages to people for a fee.
Hobby or Recreation_________Viewing a field to determine whether crops need water when they are grown for personal enjoyment.
Commercial__________________Determining whether crops need to be watered that are grown as part of commercial farming operation.
The Kentuckian with the multi-rotor was in violation on several counts. The multi-rotor was operating in close proximity to persons and property. It was not at a field used for recreation. I understand that the craft was taking photographs for the sale of real estate. That is commercial activity and requires a COA.

Of course the FAA guidelines do not give anyone permission to shoot down errant drones. But, I agree with posters above - who’s going to convict him?

Crane

310

I would.

311

Could you clarify that. The guy is clearly in violation of FAA guidelines and may be commercial.

If I were the shooter I’d claim the multi-rotor was being operated in an unsafe manner and since it is a small machine shooting it eliminated the danger. Like shooting an attacking dog.

Crane

312

Please cite the guidelines. So far as the story goes, he wasn’t operating for commercial purposes. He said his friend in Las Vegas asked him to check up on his house. If that’s the case, it appears very likely that he was operating the UAS as a model aircraft.

So, what model aircraft rule did he break?

ETA: and I’m saying I would vote to convict the shooter. He clearly broke a few criminal laws.

313

Or you could avail yourself of the cites already provided in my previous posts … no he was not in violation of any FAA guidelines.

314

Anti-drone tech revealed.

315

Ravenman,

He was not flying for recreation.

He was not at an approved field.

He was photographing the house for sale.

He was using the multi-rotor to check the house.

According to the FAA - that’s non-recreational which makes it commercial.

This is not an exercise in common sense or logic.

Crane

316

He doesn’t have to be at an approved field. That’s not an FAA rule.

Cite that he was operating for commercial purposes? I saw that in exactly zero articles on this story.

317

Even supposing he was flying commercially (which I can’t find any evidence of in the articles I read) he may well have an FAA exemption for that. My understanding is that they are handing those out relatively freely now for those willing to do the paperwork.

And I agree with Ravenman. That you have to be at an approved field is a bizarre claim. Here’s the best summary I could find of what passes for the rules at this time…

318

FAA rules for model airplanes:

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law
relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into
Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this
subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration
may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model
aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational
use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a communitybased
set of safety guidelines and within the programming
of a nationwide community-based organization;

…

(b) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall
be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue
enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who
endanger the safety of the national airspace system.

The AMA is the only current community based organization in the US:
Academy of Model Aeronautics National Model Aircraft Safety Code
Effective January 1, 2014

A. GENERAL: A model aircraft is a non-human-carrying aircraft capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere. It may not exceed limitations of this code and is
intended exclusively for sport, recreation, education and/or competition. All model flights must be conducted in accordance with this safety code and any
additional rules specific to the flying site.

  1. Model aircraft will not be flown:
    (a) In a careless or reckless manner.
    (b) At a location where model aircraft activities are prohibited.
    …
  2. Model aircraft pilots will:
    (a) Yield the right of way to all human-carrying aircraft.
    (b) See and avoid all aircraft and a spotter must be used when appropriate. (AMA Document #540-D.)
    © Not fly higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying the airport operator.
    (d) Not interfere with operations and traffic patterns at any airport, heliport or seaplane base except where there is a mixed use agreement.
    (e) Not exceed a takeoff weight, including fuel, of 55 pounds unless in compliance with the AMA Large Model Airplane program. (AMA Document 520-A.)
    (f) Ensure the aircraft is identified with the name and address or AMA number of the owner on the inside or affixed to the outside of the model aircraft. (This
    does not apply to model aircraft flown indoors.)

B. RADIO CONTROL (RC)

  1. All pilots shall avoid flying directly over unprotected people, vessels, vehicles or structures and shall avoid endangerment of life and property of others.
  2. A successful radio equipment ground-range check in accordance with manufacturer’s recommendations will be completed before the first flight of a new or
    repaired model aircraft.
  3. At all flying sites a safety line(s) must be established in front of which all flying takes place. (AMA Document #706.)
    (a) Only personnel associated with flying the model aircraft are allowed at or in front of the safety line.
    (b) At air shows or demonstrations, a straight safety line must be established.
    © An area away from the safety line must be maintained for spectators.
    (d) Intentional flying behind the safety line is prohibited.

Model airplanes are flown at recreational sites. The multi-rotor was being operated in an urban area over unprotected people, vehicles and structures.

Crane

319

That doesn’t say that flight may only occur at certain sites. And it says flight “directly” over people, etc are prohibited. I think it’s very clear you aren’t reading the guidelines correctly. Your cite simply doesn’t say what you think it does.

320

Ravenman,

Both the FAA and the AMA have relaxed their rules a bit and there are ambiguities. However a couple of items are fixed:

  1. Model Airplanes are operated only for recreation. The FAA recognizes 2 categories: recreational and non-recreational (commercial). The commercial category does not involve business or money - it is any activity that is not strictly recreation.

  2. The AMA safety rules are inclusive, not pick and choose. A flying site (place where models are flown for recreation) is defined by layout, procedures and monitoring to enforce the procedures.

The multi-rotor was not on a recreational flight, not in a controlled recreational area and was operated near uninformed people and unprotected structures.

I fly fixed wing drones that have a range of 12 miles. I never fly over inhabited areas, paved roads or private property without permission. The photographs are used for archaeological survey. The FAA considers this a commercial activity if the survey results are published.

Crane