My guess is that while theoretically Kerry could be excommunicated, the church would never do it. If they did, then to be consistent they’d have to excommunicate all politicans who are Catholic worldwide who supported abortion rights to be consistent. This would be just too controversial.
Related thread from July:
Kerry Charged with heresy for communion.
According to this blog, the “consultant to the Vatican” objects to the way his letter is being used, and denies that it has the signficance attributed to it.
Unsurprisingly, there’s less in this than meets the eye.
I do hope that, AFTER the pedophile priests & their enabling bishops, the RCC does start excommunicating high-profile pro-abortion Catholic politicians. Alas, I won’t hold my breath for either. I know that if Senator Kerry were Assembly of God, we’d have booted him long ago.
I didn’t know that, this is very educational. So Sen Kerry is “pro-abortion”? Well, learn something every day! You have some cite on that, someplace where Kerry says “Abortions are really swell! Run right out and get one today!”
Amen, brother. Too many Catholics seem to focus on abortion, and then proceed to throw the rest of Catholic teaching on social justice, free-market capitalism, and especially the death penalty, right out the window.
What’s a Catholic to do? I’ll vote for Kerry, despite my reservations about abortion, because, first, I believe that the law on abortion is not going to fundamentally change no matter who is president (yes, it might be somewhat more difficult to obtain an abortion, in some places and in some circumstances, if Bush is elected, but legal abortion isn’t going anywhere in this country), and second, the way to eliminate (OK, never happen) or at least significantly reduce the number of abortions is to make good education and birth control available absolutely free to every woman (and girl) in the country. But the Church is so unbelievably stupid about birth control that it will never get behind a policy like that, so they’re stuck with abortion as their one and only issue (at the expense of issues where they really could make a difference), and the Church as much as the laity is responsible for the marginalization of Catholic thought as an influence on politics and elections.
But the Church is doing Catholics (and the world in general) no favors with its rigid, hidebound thinking.
IIRC, according to the current Pope, the three great moral issues of our time are:
Abortion
Death Penalty
Euthanasia
(Though not necessarily in that or any order. All are considered of utmost import)
The Church acknowledges that there are times, as a practical matter, when there is no possible other way of dealing with a criminal (for the safety of society) than putting the criminal to death. Those circumstances bear no relation with or resemblance to the United States, where life imprisonment is feasible.
OTOH, the ELCA, while disapproving of abortion, would not deny someone communion for supporting a woman’s right to choose. And the “state of grace” requirement? Heck, our belief is that sinners need communion more than anybody!
CCM requires me to do what I would anyway – and that’s say “I agree” to what you had to say here.
As a GQ (and I know it was posted in GD, not GQ), I think Bricker’s response makes the situation pretty clear: there are certain circumstances which incur automatic excommunication – and Kerry has committed none of them. Formalized individual excommunication is a different matter – and nobody with the right to do so has excommunicated Kerry. Somebody’s moving in the church courts that he’s a heretic and deserves excommunication – but that’s only a canon-law equivalent of someone pressing charges in a secular court; their accusation does not automatically convict.
AFAIK, that’s all that needs to be said, until and unless someone formally authorized to do so makes a further statement in behalf of the Catholic Church.
I wasn’t aware abortion’s had become legal under Islamic doctrine. I think you have the right idea. If the Al Qur’an can enlighten Catholics on how to separate personal conviction from their daily lives then God’s speed with your endeavors.
Just thought I’d remind you of a little bit of wisdom, Tiger :).
Daniel
Procedural question: When a Catholic is excommunicated, is he required to return his possessing-demons to his local diocese, or straight to the Vatican? Or to they just send a priest to his house to repossess them? (Nyuk, nyuk!) Also, is the Church entitled to bill him for any wear and tear?
I’m afraid I don’t get this - except for recognizing the “repossession” pun. If the whole post is a joke, I think the current stand-up comics of the world may rest assured that their livelihoods are not in danger from new competition. Is it some attempt to suggest that an excommunicated person is demon-possessed?
:rolleyes: No, Bricker, it is an attempt to suggest that every Catholic is demon-possessed. I thought practically everybody on this board had read at least one or two Jack Chick tracts at one time or another.
That would be like assuming all Florida voters are incapable of using a punch ballot after reading your last post.
OK, that’s not even meant as a joke, is it? Just a random nonsequitur.
I don’t want to be the guy that over-analyzes every joke… but I’m familiar with the works of Mr. Chick, and I think he merely posits that the LEADERS of the Catholic Church are managed by demons. Followers are, for the most part, innocent dupes. (See the Murphy on his deathbed tract, for example).
Not a joke or a non sequiter (FYI, there’s a space in the word). It relates directly to your connection between Jack Chick and Catholics at large. I’m sure Senator Kerry would argue he is not possessed of demons (although his wife says he wakes up dreaming about his days in Vietnam).
Just a gentle nudge to someone who stepped in it using boots of humor.
True; I was using artistic license to stretch the point. However, in Chick tracts, all homosexuals are possessed by demons. He actually draws them. When two guys kiss, the the demons perched on their heads also kiss.
Ah, Jack! What a unique cultural treasure you are! 