Wow, what a contrast this place is to the conservative blogs - they’re talking about practically NOTHING but this, printing e-mails full of outrage from the parents of troops, people from McCain to the American Legion (is that right?) saying that they just don’t believe Kerry was talking about Bush…
'Course, nothing about this says whether this’ll do anything for the election - six days isn’t a lot of time for ads to come out associating the Generic Democrat to Kerry to make a difference - but we’ll see.
[QUOTE=elucidator]
All well and good, John, one really wouldn’t expect much of a laugh since it wasn’t much of a joke, even if it had been delivered right. But if Kerry had deliberately and clearly dissed the soldiers, what audience reaction would you expect? Wouldn’t you expect shock, horror and dismay? Regardless of the political makeup of the audience?
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I would not be at all surprised to see the college students laughing at the “stupidity” of Army troops–but then I went to one of the most hard-core leftist universities on the planet, so it’s possible I’m a little skewed.
There is a stereotype among a lot of liberals that soldiers are typically stupid and evil.* So I don’t think it’s that surprising that people took this very ambiguous statement as directed at the troops. It’s all a tempest in a teapot, of course, but really, what a dumb thing to say. Somebody should have caught that one.
Kerry continues to be the best thing that ever happened for the Republican Party, at least over the last 4 years.
Even if his intent wasn’t to smear the troops, he just tossed a lit cig out the window while driving through a tinder box forest. Like it or not, this will be fanned into a major fire.
[QUOTE=dangermom]
…There is a stereotype among a lot of liberals that soldiers are typically stupid and evil.*…
[/QUOTE]
Really. Hadn’t noticed, and I’ve been hanging out with lefties for, oh, quite some time. There is a stereotype that war is stupid and evil, but we tend to think of that as being kind of obvious. YMMV.
I think you’re all wrong. It was an intentional double entendre. He meant both meanings. That’s why the joke was so clumsily worded, it had to fit the two meanings.
The first meaning was that if you don’t study hard and graduate, you will have limited options for your career (such as the military).
The second meaning was as Dio said. If you follow bad intelligence and plan poorly, you wind up presiding over a quagmire like Iraq.
Although it’s a true and fairly witty statement, it’s politically stupid. It seems too much like troop bashing at a time when the American people are very pro-military. It might not change votes, but it will allow right wing pundits to rile up the conservative base right before the election.
No mention of soldiers that I can detect. And there’s a couple of comments by observers at the end, neither of whom seem to have detected the shattering horror of Kerry’s remarks.
Sooner or later, a transcript will appear. I got two bits says he never even mentioned soldiers. Just Bush.
[QUOTE=Monocracy]
The first meaning was that if you don’t study hard and graduate, you will have limited options for your career (such as the military).
[/QUOTE]
So why would he slip that in amidst several barbs aimed at the President?
There is no context for a “do well in school” statement, and every context for a “Bush is so dumb he got us stuck in Iraq” statement. One makes sense, the other, not so much.
[QUOTE=flickster]
Kerry continues to be the best thing that ever happened for the Republican Party, at least over the last 4 years.
[/QUOTE]
Yup. No matter how witty he may be, Kerry’s got crappy timing.
[media] American deaths are piling up at an alarming rate. There are reputable reports that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died. There is no discernable plan to get our soldiers home. We are in a war of…what? ooooohhh SHINY![/media]
[QUOTE=Jess]
I’m quite sure this will change no minds whatsoever. There will be fussing and fuming for several days, or maybe even weeks. Some folks (who dislike Kerry anyway) will hold onto it for longer – we’ll get to hear all about it again for sure if Kerry runs for President again. Possibly even during the primaries from some of Kerry’s fellow Democrats who are opposing him.
But change people’s minds? I very much doubt it.
[/QUOTE]
But it will take up valuable media time during the last week of the campaign. That will affect turnout and a tiny percentage of swing voters.
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
There is no context for a “do well in school” statement
[/QUOTE]
There doesn’t need to be context for it, it’s a paraphrase of what he actually says.
“you study hard, you do your homework” = “do well in school”
Anyway, upon reflection, I suspect that Kerry really was thinking of the second interpretation. After all, he knows, based on personal experience, that officers do go to war. So he was making a stab at Bush’s reputation for stupidity. Now, I have no doubt whatsoever that Kerry thinks that he is smarter than Bush. However, basing that claim on their college grades and study habits was pretty weak, considering the evidence.
[/QUOTE]
True, but basing it on the number of times they have said something incredibly stupid in front of an audience, Kerry is trailing by a couple thousand.
Who cares what Kerry said? He probably meant Bush, but if he meant the military, it’s probably a reflection of his outdated experience. I suspect the same is true of Dio. The military of 20-40 years ago is not anything like the military of today. Long gone are the days when an infantryman was a grunt with a rifle and some basic training.
I’m more interested in the assertion that soldiers in the military are on average dumber than the general population, or poorer students, or in any way inferior.
[QUOTE=Monocracy]
There doesn’t need to be context for it, it’s a paraphrase of what he actually says.
“you study hard, you do your homework” = “do well in school”
“if you don’t” = “or else”
[/QUOTE]
But why does he just drop it into the middle of a perfectly good Bush-trashing? Does that really make sense to you? It’s not a commencement speech, for chrissakes!
I don’t get it why so many posters think he was referring to Bush. He didn’t mention Bush. It’s one thing to say “Bush is an idiot.” It’s another thing to say “American soldiers are idiots.” Kerry has said both and worse on many occasions. This time he said the latter.
[QUOTE=What the … !!!]
Yesterday Kerry said the following to a group of college students… “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
Amid criticisms from McCain and others he now claims it was a botched joke and that he was referring to Bush getting us stuck in Iraq.
That argument would suggest that Kerry would have gotten us even stucker.
So do you believe him or is he just trying to crawl out of a hole?
[/QUOTE]
A hole. And he’s digging it deeper and deeper and deeper…
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
But why does he just drop it into the middle of a perfectly good Bush-trashing? Does that really make sense to you? It’s not a commencement speech, for chrissakes!
[/QUOTE]
There is no doubt it was a Bush bashing comment, but he made the comment more witty by using a double entendre rather than coming out and saying directly, “Bush followed bad intelligence and got us stuck in Iraq.”