Keurig K40 coffemaker, good, but not a French Press...

[MacTech]

We were given a Keurig K40, some tea K-Cups, and the reusable K-Cup module for Christmas, and so far, I’ve run a couple of cups of coffee and tea through it

It’s a great little unit, a bit noisy when pumping water into the heater tank, but that’s a “cosmetic” annoyance, nothing more

The unit is simplicity itself to operate, fill the water tank, load a K-Cup, and when the two cup size buttons flash (bright blue LED illumination), simply press the button corresponding to the size drink you want, sit back and let the machine brew away, when the process finishes, simply open the K-Cup bay, remove the spent cup (caution, may be quite hot), and close it back up

The machine itself is versatile, you can get K-Cups with various coffee varieties, teas, and hot chocolate, with the available reusable module, you can use your favorite gourmet coffee that you grind yourself, you can even use the unit to make a quick cup of hot water for those instant ramen-noodles beloved of college students and night owls

Overall, compared against other drip-style coffee machines, the K40 is a great machine, it may not have the bells and whistles of the more advanced coffee machines, but if all you want is a cup of hot stimulants, the K40 can deliver your caffiene-delivery-vehicle of choice quicker and easier than a standard coffee machine, and with almost no cleanup, no basket of used grounds to dispose of, no carafe to clean, just drop in the cup, and select your cup size

That said, there are a couple downsides to the K40;

The K-Cups themselves produce okay coffee, not stellar coffee, just good, basic coffee, the main reason for this is a couple reasons, first, the cups themselves are nothing more than a paper filter and coffee grounds in a plastic carrier cup with a vaccum-sealed foil lid

1; paper filters absorb the essential oils and aromatics that give coffee it’s unique body and texture, what’s left behind are the bitters

2; drip brewers (which the K40 is a modified version of) under-extract coffee at the start of the cycle, as not enough water hits the grounds, it passes through them quickly making a weak brew, and they over-extract the coffee at the end of the brew cycle, as the last drops of water are forced out of the K-Cup by a small air pump, over-extraction creates a bitter brew, for best results, all the grounds should be exposed to the hot water for the same amount of time, which no drip maker can do

3; the K-Cups themselves contain pre-ground coffee, for best results, coffee should be ground moments before brewing, to retain the aromatic oils and other compounds that give coffee it’s unique flavor and character, exposure to air spoils and ages coffee, once ground, coffee ages rapidly, yes the K-Cups are vacuum sealed, which will slow the aging process, but not stop it, take a look at an “expired” unused K-Cup, and you’ll notice the foil seal is domed upward and under pressure, those are the oils and aromatics escaping from the grounds, if coffee was ground just before brewing, the aromatics would still be in the grounds

That said, the “You-Fill-It” reusable K-Cup module does produce appreciably better coffee, mainly for two reasons, first, the coffee itself is fresher, ideally, ground moments before, and secondly, the filter material is a plastic screen, no paper to absorb the oils and aromatics, however, it has the downside of a standard coffee filter in regards to cleaning it out for reuse, it’s not as simple, easy, and convenient as the disposable K-Cup

Finally, the disposable K-Cups do add more plastics into the waste stream, whereas the You-Fill-It module doesn’t

The K40 can’t compare to a good French Press when it comes to quality coffee, as the press keeps all the grounds exposed to water for the same amount of time, preserving the aromatics, oils, and crema, but the French Press is a lot less convenient to use and clean, and it’s also a lot messier, however, the coffee from a French Press is indescribably better

plus, the French Press is cheaper

still, the K40 is a great single-serving drip machine, combine it with the You-Fill-It K-Cup module and you’ll have a quick and easy way to make coffee that’s almost as good as the french press

the K40 is definitely more convenient, and easier to clean though

[Chefguy]

I’ve had a Keurig for the past couple of years and keep it at work. It’s great for a quick cup.

[Tuckerfan]

I once read somewhere that French Presses are actually the worst way to make coffee, not because it made bad tasting coffee, but because the French Press pushed out harmful oils and compounds naturally occuring in the beans, while other types of coffee makers didn’t. IIRC, the additional oils and compounds were so bad for you that they completely negated all of coffee’s beneficial effects (save the caffiene of course).

[Santo_Rugger]

@Tuckerfan

I once read somewhere that French Presses are actually the worst way to make coffee, not because it made bad tasting coffee, but because the French Press pushed out harmful oils and compounds naturally occuring in the beans, while other types of coffee makers didn’t. IIRC, the additional oils and compounds were so bad for you that they completely negated all of coffee’s beneficial effects (save the caffiene of course).

Everything I like is bad for me: alcohol, tobacco, foods with plenty of saturated fat, etc. It doesn’t surprise me that the one of the ways to make coffee that tastes the best, is also the worst for me!

[Chefguy]

@Tuckerfan

I once read somewhere that French Presses are actually the worst way to make coffee, not because it made bad tasting coffee, but because the French Press pushed out harmful oils and compounds naturally occuring in the beans, while other types of coffee makers didn’t. IIRC, the additional oils and compounds were so bad for you that they completely negated all of coffee’s beneficial effects (save the caffiene of course).

This just doesn’t pass the common sense test for me. How could pushing the coffee down through water remove anything? And even if it did, it would still remain in the resulting brew.

[BMalion]

We use this system at our office.

Most of the “special flavors” are vile, sweetened junk to me.

I like the dark roasts but you really do notice the ground-6-months-ago charactor of the product.

[Tuckerfan]

@Chefguy

This just doesn’t pass the common sense test for me. How could pushing the coffee down through water remove anything? And even if it did, it would still remain in the resulting brew.

It doesn’t remove anything, it adds things which don’t get transferred out of the beans in drip coffee makers. Think of it like this, a drip coffee maker is like grilling a burger, with much of the harmful stuff not ending up in the final product, while a french press is like frying, in that the final product stews in the bad stuff and lets it soak it all up, and in such a great quantity that even if it’s a lean cut of meat, it’s just as bad for you as if was back fat.

[Chefguy]

@Tuckerfan

It doesn’t remove anything, it adds things which don’t get transferred out of the beans in drip coffee makers. Think of it like this, a drip coffee maker is like grilling a burger, with much of the harmful stuff not ending up in the final product, while a french press is like frying, in that the final product stews in the bad stuff and lets it soak it all up, and in such a great quantity that even if it’s a lean cut of meat, it’s just as bad for you as if was back fat.

Transferred out to…where? Your logic is making my head spin. Seriously, I don’t understand your analogy and really don’t understand how something can be added that wasn’t there in the first place. Guess I would need to read the article you saw. Sorry about the highjack, folks.

[Tuckerfan]

@Chefguy

Transferred out to…where? Your logic is making my head spin. Seriously, I don’t understand your analogy and really don’t understand how something can be added that wasn’t there in the first place. Guess I would need to read the article you saw. Sorry about the highjack, folks.

Look a drip coffee maker just lets the water through the grounds, while a french press forces the water through the grounds. With the drip, only the loosest parts of the bean are going to get transferred to the water, rather like a feather falling on to the surface of a stream, it’s going to get carried along by the water. In a french press, the pressure is such that compounds that are tighter bound to the beans are forced out of the beans, like how a flood can carry houses along. The french press isn’t adding anything to the coffee that isn’t contained in the beans, it’s simply extracting things from the beans which a drip coffee maker can’t.

[MacTech]

Last night I tried a couple more experiments with the K40

loose leaf tea (white tea) did not work well, it took two runs to get even a passably palatable tea, the tea leaves were not able to absob enough water to brew a decent cup of tea

however, loose Roobios African Red Bush tea (red tea) worked great, as it was much finer particles, I was also able to get two decent cups out of the tea leaves before they got too weak

[Garfield226]

@Tuckerfan

Look a drip coffee maker just lets the water through the grounds, while a french press forces the water through the grounds. With the drip, only the loosest parts of the bean are going to get transferred to the water, rather like a feather falling on to the surface of a stream, it’s going to get carried along by the water. In a french press, the pressure is such that compounds that are tighter bound to the beans are forced out of the beans, like how a flood can carry houses along. The french press isn’t adding anything to the coffee that isn’t contained in the beans, it’s simply extracting things from the beans which a drip coffee maker can’t.

I understand what you mean, but I’m not sure the french press is different because of the pressure involved so much as the time. I mean, you don’t really generate THAT much pressure, do you? I don’t, anyway. Certainly more than in a drip brew, but not a ton more. I would think if it was the pressure, espresso would be the worst.

Time on the other hand – you steep a french press for a few minutes. In either the drip or espresso, the grounds and the water are in contact for what, 30 seconds at most (the total time is longer than that obviously, but I mean the time for a single drop of water to work its way through)?

[BMalion]

@Tuckerfan

Look a drip coffee maker just lets the water through the grounds, while a french press forces the water through the grounds.

What the-? “forces”… it’s not like I use a hydraulic press to push down the screen. I use my right hand with the same amount of force that I might use to lift a rather large cheese danish.

With the drip, only the loosest parts of the bean are going to get transferred to the water, rather like a feather falling on to the surface of a stream, it’s going to get carried along by the water. In a french press, the pressure is such that compounds that are tighter bound to the beans are forced out of the beans, like how a flood can carry houses along.

cite? Look, I’m not picking on you, if you don’t like the french press just say “I don’t like the french press.” and have done with it.

The french press isn’t adding anything to the coffee that isn’t contained in the beans, it’s simply extracting things from the beans which a drip coffee maker can’t.

Things like flavor and charactor perhaps?

I’m drinking Kuerig right now (at the office), I used a drip on Christmas morning, and a french press on Saturdays and Sundays, For me, I ptrefer the french press. But your mileage may vary. That’s how it is with taste.

[Tuckerfan]

@BMalion

What the-? “forces”… it’s not like I use a hydraulic press to push down the screen. I use my right hand with the same amount of force that I might use to lift a rather large cheese danish.

Which is more pressure than a drip maker uses.

cite? Look, I’m not picking on you, if you don’t like the french press just say “I don’t like the french press.” and have done with it.

Will this do?

A report of the study, published in today’s British Medical Journal, shows that men and women who drank the filtered coffee exhibited no changes over the course of the trial in any of the assayed blood constituents. Previous studies by Urgert’s group had shown that such a filter effectively removes all of the coffee-oil’s diterpenes. Those who drank coffee made by the French press method, however, displayed a host of undesirable changes.

For instance, levels of one liver enzyme (alanine aminotransferase) nearly doubled early in the trial. This enzyme serves as a marker of potential stress to the liver, Urgert explains. “If there is some change in liver cell integrity, the concentration of these enzymes in the blood can rise.”

Frankly, I don’t care enough one way or another about the things to fabricate such a story. If I didn’t like 'em, I’d just say, “I don’t like 'em.”

Things like flavor and charactor perhaps?

Well, I’m certain that those things would be slightly different, but it’s pretty common for different preparation methods to yield different compounds in the end product, and even simple changes can greatly effect the outcome.

I’m drinking Kuerig right now (at the office), I used a drip on Christmas morning, and a french press on Saturdays and Sundays, For me, I ptrefer the french press. But your mileage may vary. That’s how it is with taste.

As I’ve stated before, this is not a question of “taste.”

[BMalion]

@Tuckerfan

Which is more pressure than a drip maker uses.

How much more? Is it really quantifible? if a sieve is pushed down, straining the grounds to the bottom, how is this increasing the “pressure”?

Will this do?Frankly, I don’t care enough one way or another about the things to fabricate such a story. If I didn’t like 'em, I’d just say, “I don’t like 'em.”

Well, from your own link:

“30 November 1996, bad news. OTOH, the news is 10 years old, so maybe new discoveries have vindicated coffee. (Also: I drink French-press coffee, and all my blood signs are excellent.)”

Well, I’m certain that those things would be slightly different, but it’s pretty common for different preparation methods to yield different compounds in the end product, and even simple changes can greatly effect the outcome.

As I’ve stated before, this is not a question of “taste.”

What is the question then?

[Tuckerfan]

@BMalion

How much more? Is it really quantifible? if a sieve is pushed down, straining the grounds to the bottom, how is this increasing the “pressure”?

Do you not understand anything about hydraulics? The only pressure a drip coffee maker would be exerting on the beans would be the weight of the water. With a french press you’re forcing the water through the sieve, rather than simply allowing gravity to work. You’re adding more pressure because of this. How much? I don’t know and I’m not going to drag out my texts on this to run the numbers.

Well, from your own link:

“30 November 1996, bad news. OTOH, the news is 10 years old, so maybe new discoveries have vindicated coffee. (Also: I drink French-press coffee, and all my blood signs are excellent.)”

And if someone posted a study which said that smoking kills people at the average age of 65, would you think that one person who smoked and lived to 90 would be enough to negate that study? :dubious:

What is the question then?

Whether or not a french press squeezes out more harmful compounds than you’d get if you used a drip maker. WTF makes you think I have an issue with how french press coffee tastes?

[BMalion]

@Tuckerfan

Do you not understand anything about hydraulics? The only pressure a drip coffee maker would be exerting on the beans would be the weight of the water. With a french press you’re forcing the water through the sieve, rather than simply allowing gravity to work. You’re adding more pressure because of this. How much? I don’t know and I’m not going to drag out my texts on this to run the numbers.

True, I am not a hydraulic engineer, but I play one on TV.

Seriously…

OK, so I take a tank of water, slowly move a screen downward, the screen moves the grounds downward, stopping short of squeezing the beans, then the grounds stay confined at the bottom, at no time does this become a sealed, airtight system. is pressure being added beyond at an atomic level? Fight my ignorance.

And if someone posted a study which said that smoking kills people at the average age of 65, would you think that one person who smoked and lived to 90 would be enough to negate that study? :dubious:

As I smoke cigars I’m biased.

Whether or not a french press squeezes out more harmful compounds than you’d get if you used a drip maker. WTF makes you think I have an issue with how french press coffee tastes?

Because I got confused by all the talk of molecules and feathers and flooded houses.

Burma!

[Tuckerfan]

@BMalion

True, I am not a hydraulic engineer, but I play one on TV.

Seriously…

OK, so I take a tank of water, slowly move a screen downward, the screen moves the grounds downward, stopping short of squeezing the beans, then the grounds stay confined at the bottom, at no time does this become a sealed, airtight system. is pressure being added beyond at an atomic level? Fight my ignorance.

You ever take a garden hose and lightly pinch it and notice that the stream of water now shoots farther than it did before? It’s the same principle here. If you allowed the plunger to descend as a result of gravity, it’d be little different than a drip maker, however, because you’re pushing down on the plunger, you’re increasing the pressure on the water, as a result of this it moves through the holes in the piston, if there were no holes in the piston you wouldn’t be able to move it down as liquids are uncompressable.

As I smoke cigars I’m biased.

And I’ve smoked cigarettes for 20+ years now, but even I’m not so stupid as to think that these things won’t kill me.

Because I got confused by all the talk of molecules and feathers and flooded houses.

Burma!

Let’s see, I try and give easy to understand answers and you respond with?

[chaoticbear]

Not that I agree or disagree with the TERRIBLE OMG COFFEE DITERPENES discussion, but I don’t really feel that there IS any pressure being put on the water, at least to any significant degree. I think that the pressure you have to put down is to overcome the friction between the gasket and the side of the coffee press. Without that gasket, I’d wager that the strainer part of the device would just sink to the bottom of its own accord.

[brewha]

@Tuckerfan

I once read somewhere that French Presses are actually the worst way to make coffee, not because it made bad tasting coffee, but because the French Press pushed out harmful oils and compounds naturally occuring in the beans, while other types of coffee makers didn’t. IIRC, the additional oils and compounds were so bad for you that they completely negated all of coffee’s beneficial effects (save the caffiene of course).

I’m skipping all the talk of houses and feathers. Tuckerfan, I fully understand what you mean and how a French Press could extract ‘stuff’ that a drip maker wouldn’t.

I just wanted to tell you that next time you find out that my favorite way of doing something is harmful - keep it to yourself! First hotdogs - now my French Press! I suppose next your going to tell me that my scotch is harmful to my liver!

[Tuckerfan]

@chaoticbear

Not that I agree or disagree with the TERRIBLE OMG COFFEE DITERPENES discussion, but I don’t really feel that there IS any pressure being put on the water, at least to any significant degree. I think that the pressure you have to put down is to overcome the friction between the gasket and the side of the coffee press. Without that gasket, I’d wager that the strainer part of the device would just sink to the bottom of its own accord.

Yes, there is pressure, even if you had a frictionless seal on the sides of the piston, you would still be putting pressure on the water. The amount of pressure applied varies with the amount of force you push down on the piston (and the number and size of the holes in the piston). And please note that I have said nothing about how french press coffee tastes! NOTHING! don’t make me repeat this again, or I’ll whip out the Bosda sized fonts.

@brewha

I just wanted to tell you that next time you find out that my favorite way of doing something is harmful - keep it to yourself! First hotdogs - now my French Press! I suppose next your going to tell me that my scotch is harmful to my liver!

Not if you mix it with coffee!