Do the automatic vending machines not work on DND keys?
Most key makers won’t have a machine or the blanks for government keyways. The government’s Medeco blanks are made specifically for the government, and we had a cutting machine just for them. They require a special machine in any event.
Back when I had only one door to a condo I had the Medeco $500 commercial locks. I got them after I found out that the local locksmiths not only couldn’t pick them, but they couldn’t drill them either.
If we are talking about a government key, I would imagine that there could be a specific “unlawful copying of government key” statute that they could charge you with. But in the case of a privately owned key, is there anything specifically criminal about duplicating a key without the owner’s permission, as opposed to it being a violation of company policy, breach of contract, etc.?
Ideas:
- Theft. However, this doesn’t really seem to apply because theft normally involves taking something tangible - in this case you have taken only information, so it’s more akin to a copyright violation than traditional theft/larceny/embezzlement/etc.
- Possession of burglary tools. This sounds possible, but I believe that these laws normally require intent to commit burglary - just having the tool isn’t enough. Maybe someone wants an extra key to the Conglom-O headquarters for some non-burglarious reason, such as having an extra key to get to work if you lose your key.
- Identity theft. A creative prosecutor might be able to say that stealing a key design is similar to swiping someone’s online banking password. However, iirc these laws normally require an “intent to defraud” for guilt to be found, and there are honest reasons that a person might have or want a duplicate key.
- Some specific key-related statute. Anyone know of a jurisdiction that has one?
That just means they need to use this tool to open your door…
They’re hopeless. We would just take a Sawz-All to the damn door, rather than try to defeat the lock. As far as I know, the keyway on a Medeco has never been picked, and since they put ball bearings in front of the mounting screws (and behind hardened steel), drilling is pointless. They also have an extra-long throw on the bolt, so jacking the frame doesn’t work, either. They used to offer $10,000 or something to anybody who could pick one of their locks.
Yes, but the staff wasn’t going to do those things absent a fire or flood. They would for any other reason they wanted in and nobody answered the door for several days or posted a notice.
My local home depot now has an automated key maker. Insert Key, get duplicates. Pretty sure it can’t read.
Speaking as a Certified Master Locksmith…
There are two types of keys: restricted and unrestricted.
Restricted keys are available from just one source (e.g. Medeco) and that source has the power to decide who can have keys made and who can’t. They can set their own rules, require authorization cards, etc. Any locksmiths who break the rules could find themselves cut off from the the supplier. Restricted keys work best when they are patented so that the source can protect their monopoly. But patents eventually expire.
Unrestricted keys are available from multiple sources (ilco, Taylor, Jet, Strattec, Hillman, Axxess, Wal-mart, etc.). It would be silly and pointless for one of these manufacturers to try to make up rules about who can and can’t have keys made because you could just go to the competition.
The vast majority of keys which are stamped “Do Not Duplicate” are, in fact, unrestricted keys which are trying to masquerade as restricted keys.
If you have an ordinary unrestricted “Do Not Duplicate” key (DND for short), there are several easy ways to get copies made and you won’t be breaking any laws. You could…
- cover the head of the key with duct tape.
- break off the head of the key.
- file off the words “Do Not Duplicate”.
- take it to a shop which uses an automated machine.
- take it to a shop who asks you to sign a waiver.
- take it to a shop whose policy is to ignore the words.
ALOA is the largest organization of locksmiths in the world and their official policy is to (a) inform the customer that words do not provide security, and (b) cut the key without asking for identification or authorization. Mere possession of the key is presumed to be proof of authorization. Not all ALOA locksmiths follow this policy; it’s part of the ALOA Technical Standards, not the Code of Ethics. YMMV.
If you have a restricted key, you have a completely different problem. You pretty much have to go back to wherever the locks originally came from because that is your connection to the company which has a monopoly on the key blanks. They will almost certainly expect you to produce documentation proving that you have the authority to order more keys (such as an authorization card). They can charge $10 per key or $20. If you take the key somewhere else, they simply don’t have the blanks. They can’t sell you what they don’t have. If you have access to a 3-D printer (or know someone who does) then maybe you can make a duplicate that way. But if the restricted key is patented, you could face large financial liability for patent violation.
Taking an unrestricted key and stamping “Do Not Duplicate” onto it does not magically turn it into a restricted key. It’s about as effective as putting up a sign that says “Keep off the grass”. If you really want to prevent people from walking on the grass, you need a fence, not a sign. That’s why ALOA says that DND keys are deceptive because they provide a false sense of security.
There are some rare cases where laws have been passed making it illegal to duplicate certain keys, e.g. Post Office box keys. But 99% of DND keys can be copied legally at your local hardware store or locksmith.
FWIW, about 20 years ago, the Best corporation was selling DND keys which said “IT IS UNLAWFUL TO DUPLICATE THIS KEY” and they got sued for false advertising because the truth was that you could legally copy those keys just about anywhere.
I wanted a spare key to my mailbox at my apartment and tried one of those automated key makers. The machine would not accept the key at all. It does not say DND, but is apparently the wrong type of key for those things. The landlord said she would have to go through the Post Office to get another key; no idea if that is true, as she had two spares and gave me one.
And interestingly, since the thread was started the Medeco locks referenced above have largely been broken. In 2007, someone demonstrated how to pick them :-
And in 2008 someone demonstrated how to copy them :-
That doesn’t mean the locks have been “broken”.
There has never been any such thing as a 100% pick-proof lock and never will be. There has never been any such thing as a 100% impossible-to-duplicate key and never will be.
Twenty years ago, Medeco locks were extremely difficult to pick, and they still are extremely difficult to pick. Most of the videos going around showing people picking Medeco locks are fake videos (using locks whose tumblers have been removed, for example) and the few which are real admit quite openly that picking a Medeco lock requires (a) special tools (b) skill + practice, and (c) an average of 10-20 minutes per lock. The vast majority of thieves never even bother to learn the sill of lock picking at all, let alone spend the time and effort it would take to master the art of picking Medeco locks.
Picking a Medeco lock is like climbing Mt. Everest. Yeah, a few people have managed to do it, but it’s extremely difficult.
The same goes for drilling a Medeco lock. With the right tools, and the right knowledge, and enough time, Medeco locks have always been drillable. I can drill a Medeco lock in about a half hour (compared to five minutes for a standard lock). The point is that your average thief isn’t willing to acquire the tools and knowledge, let alone spend the time, when they could simply choose another target which has inferior locks.
As for Medeco keys, they generally fall into two categories: restricted or unrestricted (as I explained in my previous post). Medeco makes over 700 different types of keys. When a new type of key is introduced, it typically covered by a patent, but patents eventually expire. While the patent is still in force, it’s extremely difficult (and financially risky) to duplicate the key. After the patent expires, it becomes less risky but still very difficult. Once a competitor starts selling key blanks for it, the key is enter the realm of unrestricted keys, and suddenly duplication becomes much easier.
The most common Medeco key is referred to as the “commercial” keyway. The patent on those keys expired a long time ago. Ilco sells key blanks which can be used to duplicate the keys, but it takes a special key machine. The HPC 1200CMB can do it and the vast majority of locksmith shops have one of those. And since the key is unrestricted, you don’t need proof of ownership. It does take extra time to operate that special machine, though. Our shop charges $14 for Medeco keys.
However, we also sell newer Medeco keys such as the “DL” key, which is part of the m3 family. Medeco DL keys are still under patent (so the blanks are not available from any source other than Medeco) and even local lock shops can’t get the blanks! The keys are cut by the distributor and then shipped to the dealer. An authorization card is required to order additional keys. But that doesn’t mean it’s impossible to duplicate the keys without authorization, just extremely difficult. As I said previously, if you have a 3-D printer, or know someone who does, and you’re willing to risk the financial liability of violating the patent, then yes the keys can be duplicated. But if you take the key to a hardware store or a locksmith shop and ask them to make you another key, they simply don’t have the blanks.
I hope it goes without saying that all of the above has absolutely nothing to do with whether the words “Do Not Duplicate” are stamped on the key. Words don’t mean squat.